Dispensationalism vs Amillennialism

American Gothic

Well-known member
Here is a pretty detailed analysis
thanks for that

I was looking at the Wiki page -

the Scroll prophecy about Messiah's death says -

"He will assign them to the Sons of Heaven and to the inheritance of Melchizedek; for He will cast their lot amid the portions of Melchizedek, who will return them there and will proclaim to them liberty, forgiving them the wrong-doings of all their iniquities. And this thing will occur in the first week (of years) of the Jubilee that follows the nine Jubilees. And the Day of Atonement (ie. Messiah's work now complete/when age of Grace will start) is the end of the tenth Jubilee, when all the Sons of Light and the men of the lot of Melchizedek will be atoned for. And a statute concerns them to provide them with their rewards. For this is the moment of the Year of Grace for Melchizedek." - DSS 11Q13

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11Q13?msclkid=1056eeadcf4011ecaa6e845e6c970de8

I think we can know definitively within a 5 year range or so, but that's about it
if the date of Creation week is known, the Jubilees can be counted forward
 
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armylngst

Well-known member
During this time mans sinful nature will be show to exist without the aid of Satan stirring things up.
Not necessarily. Jesus has already defeated those who followed Satan, the beast, and his image, when He returned to set up His kingdom in Jerusalem, to fulfill the promises made to Israel. Life is fine under the reign of the King until Satan is released to deceive all the nations of the world, born of those who came through the tribulation alive, and followed Christ, and not the beast and his image. Satan deceives them who did not have a relationship with Christ as those who came through the tribulation. They are defeated along with Satan when they come down to Jerusalem to attack Jesus and His Kingdom. After this, the heavens and the earth are destroyed in fervent heat, and God brings sin the new heavens and the new earth, and all enter this new creation as one.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Not necessarily. Jesus has already defeated those who followed Satan, the beast, and his image, when He returned to set up His kingdom in Jerusalem, to fulfill the promises made to Israel. Life is fine under the reign of the King until Satan is released to deceive all the nations of the world, born of those who came through the tribulation alive, and followed Christ, and not the beast and his image. Satan deceives them who did not have a relationship with Christ as those who came through the tribulation. They are defeated along with Satan when they come down to Jerusalem to attack Jesus and His Kingdom. After this, the heavens and the earth are destroyed in fervent heat, and God brings sin the new heavens and the new earth, and all enter this new creation as one.
Are you saying people will not sin in the thousand ear reign?
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
No such thing as a future Messianic age on earth found in scripture


Sure there is:

Revelation 20:1-9
King James Version

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.




You improperly delete this teaching from Scripture and prooftext in a manner that has no consistency.

Here's your prooftexting:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


Here is the Word of God:


Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



Kind of leaving some important events out, aren't you?


Continued...



 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

No, Jesus returns and we see the Sheep and Goat Judgment:


Luke 17:26-37 King James Version

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Did mankind and the heavens and earth cease when total destruction of the wicked fell in Noah's day? Nope.

Did mankind and the heavens and earth cease in the total destruction of the wicked in Lot's day? Nope.


30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


One will be taken, and one will be left.

Who was left in Noah's day?

Who was left in Lot's day?

The wicked? Nope. It was the righteous.

That is how it will be when Christ returns:


Revelation 19:17-21 King James Version

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



There is a perfectly consistent timeline in both Old and New Testament Prophecy. That you feel you can remove portions of Scripture is something I would advise you to give some thought to.

It is pretty simple to see a thousand-year period between the two resurrections of Revelation 20, and we see Christ reigns in that period.

Why do you remove it to teach the doctrines of men?


Continued...


 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

I agree, but that doesn't nullify the teaching that He returns and establishes the Millennial Kingdom.

That's the portion of Revelation 20 that, for some reason, you have been blinded to.

Truly Peter's prophecy, as well as all of the prophecy you think nullifies other prophecy will occur, but in its proper order.

You say there will be no thousand-year Millennial Kingdom (Millennial means a thousand, by the way) and Scripture states there will be.

And it is after this that the elements melt with fervent heat:


Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



So would you mind explaining how it is that there are two resurrections that are divided in Scripture by a thousand years, yet you teach there will be no Millennial Kingdom?

We know this is the moment this universe passes from existence, we see that here:


Revelation 21 King James Version

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.



Now, please explain that Christ taught that His Return would be as in the days of Noah and Lot, where all wicked unbelievers were destroyed and only the righteous left, but you deny His teaching and say His Return will not be as it was in the Days of Noah and Lot?

They were left physically alive in both examples. At His Return, Christ states the wicked will die physically, and the believing will be left alive physically. We know this because those "left" are contrasted with those who are physically dead and being eaten by carrion fowl.

We see the same prophecy here:


Ezekiel 39 King James Version

1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.



Apparently, you are not familiar with the fact that Prophecy can have partial fulfillment. Prophecy concerning Christ was understood by men much the same way you understand prophecy: as one-time events. That didn't work out too good for those who only understood Christ would come once, did it?

Here we see the Supper of the Great God as described in Revelation 19. And that there is a physical existence that is not the new heavens and earth is clear:


Ezekiel 39:8-13 King James Version

8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord God.



Will Israel be burying bones in the new heavens and earth? Nope.

Note in v.8 that "it is done." You use this statement from Revelation as a prooftext that the end has come, yet we see that in prophetic literature this is not the case. What is "done" is this stage of the prophetic timeline, and it is in the Millennial Kingdom that Israel will be cleansing the land (of bones).


Continued...

 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

Not before the thousand years expires:


Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



We don't see that in the first resurrection:


Revelation 20 King James Version

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Just how many times does the thousand years have to be mentioned in order for you to see that a thousand years separates the two resurrections?

Even if you spiritualize the thousand years and make it not a thousand years you still cannot remove this time period from between the two resurrections.

Have those that were martyred been raised from the dead? Nope. Has a period between two resurrections taken place? Nope.

Can you remove from Scripture one of the most clear and plain prophecies we have? Nope.


Continued...



 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

He will, that is to be sure, but not until the thousand years expires:

Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



When has God devoured with fire those surrounding the camp of the saints? He hasn't.

When has the heavens and the earth fled away? It hasn't.

This will not happen until the thousand years have expired. And if Scripture says it's a thousand years, why not accept it as a thousand years?


Continued...


 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Again, you leave out the period of time between the two resurrections.

The thousand years expire, and the Great White Throne takes place.

There will be no one "left" at the Great White Throne, because the current universe passes away.


Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And the eagles will gather to feast on flesh in the Eternal State?


Matthew 24:28 KJV

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Luke 17:37 KJV

And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.



You have carrion fowl eating flesh of the wicked in the Eternal State, and you aren't even aware you are doing that.


Continued...


 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.



Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.


And when you can distinguish between partial fulfillment and final fulfillment you will be able to place each of these in their proper context.

Until then...


Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

So let's get the Paul Harvey Report:


Zechariah 14:16-21 King James Version

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.



Now let's look at your prooftext:


12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.


Again, you leave out the Whole Counsel to teach doctrines of men.

Does this not refer to those who fought against Jerusalem? Do we not see a physical kingdom in which Christ reigns? Do we not see physical judgments (no rain, plagues) against those who do not submit to His reign?


Continued...



 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Nahum 1:5-6KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Again, let's put this back into its proper timeline:


Revelation 20:7-9 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



Prophecy will have its application in both events, the Return of the Lord, and the Great White Throne which takes place at the end of the thousand years. Just like Prophecy has two applications concerning the Coming of Messiah in the first place. He did begin His reign when He first came, and He did overcome death and Hell through His Work, but that doesn't mean that there will not be a final fulfillment.

Before the new heavens and earth:


Revelation 1:18 King James Version

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 20:12-14 King James Version

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



After:


Revelation 21 King James Version

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



Before:


Revelation 20:7-9 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



Keep the timeline given in Scripture intact, and you will not have to remove the thousand years from Scripture.


Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.



God bless.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Sure there is:

Revelation 20:1-9
King James Version

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.




You improperly delete this teaching from Scripture and prooftext in a manner that has no consistency.

Here's your prooftexting:




Here is the Word of God:


Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



Kind of leaving some important events out, aren't you?


Continued...
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Does Jesus preside over a kingdom of sin? Really?
I hear you saying, people will not sin during the 1000 year reign.

Obviously the people who are living in the 1000 year reign are people who have made it through the tribulation or those born during the tribulation. Where does the bible say they lost their sin nature?

You might be right, but you need to show a verse or two to support your view.

Rev. 20:7 tells us....When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

Are the people Satan deceives not sinners?
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
So, I take it you side with those who don't believe Jesus will physically come to Earth a second time, because He didn't come to Earth physically the first time? You neglect all the prophecies in the Old Testament that clearly state Jesus will reign in Jerusalem, on the throne of His ancestor King David. What Revelation adds is that this reign will be for 1000 years. Add to it the last part of Revelation 20 that speaks of Satan and his armies attacking Jerusalem, the "beloved city", and God defeating them there. There is so much you ignore.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
First, if you are not aware of it, emboldening your text is the equivalent of shouting at people, and makes you come across as someone who has no self-control.

Just saying.


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?


Yes of course I can, and I have already given you multiple examples of this:

Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

You ignored it the first time and responded with a rant, how about taking the time to actually see what your antagonist is saying?

Above, we see that there is a period (and it doesn't matter how long you make this period) after the Tribulation Martyrs are raised back to life (and it doesn't matter if you view them as glorified at this time or not) and it after this time period expires that the current creation (which is physical, just look outside your window) passes away.

You aren't going to change that physical fact.

You aren't going to change the fact that within this period of time Christ is reigning and that those who were dead have been raised back to life to reign with Him.

So let's start there, and I will be back in a bit to show you some more of the evidence for a physical Kingdom that you have ignored in the previous posts.


Continued...


 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

You ignored this:

And the eagles will gather to feast on flesh in the Eternal State?


Matthew 24:28 KJV

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Luke 17:37 KJV

And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.



You have carrion fowl eating flesh of the wicked in the Eternal State, and you aren't even aware you are doing that.

Would you mind explaining why Christ is wrong and you are right about the conditions that will exist when He returns?

He teaches that there will be carrion fowl eating the flesh of dead men. John and Ezekiel say the same thing.

How is it they are wrong and you are right? Because they didn't know Peter's secret code for interpreting Prophecy?

That there is a physical existence after His Return is evident in all Prophecy related to His Return.

So explain why Scripture, Christ, and inspired writers and Prophets are wrong and you are right.


Continued...




 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

One more example of the physical Kingdom you ignored in previous posts:


Revelation 20:7-9 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years
are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Are these not physical men being devoured by fire from Heaven?

Or would you suggest this is taking place in the Eternal State?

I have provided a link for the word translated "are expired." Please look at it. It means "brought to an end," made complete.

What comes to an end? Well, Scripture states one thousand years comes to an end, but because you reject what Scripture teaches you are perfectly free to make that time period however long you like.

But you still have a time period.

What this shows is that there is a time period that comes to an end, and that time period follows the First Resurrection and precedes the Second death.

You aren't going to change that.

And you aren't going to change the fact that this time period has a physical nature, and that men can die in this time period.

Understand?

Understand why your position doesn't hold water?

If you would just address the points Scripture will correct your error, but as long as you deny what Scripture states no one can help you.


Continued...


 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?

Why do I need to prove a physical earthly throne to state Christ reigns for one thousand years in the Millennial Kingdom?

This is a tactic employed by those who cannot deal with the text we have. It's a false argument and has no relevance to the fact that Christ reigns for one thousand years in Revelation 20.

Secondly, you have not addressed the fact that there are two resurrections in Revelation 20. This demands a time period between the two.

So explain why there are not two resurrections in Revelation 20.


Continued...

 
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