Dispensationalism vs Amillennialism

armylngst

Well-known member
Your claims are absolutely false

Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of a Virgin, he led a sinless life being God in the flesh, died on the Cross of Calvary for the sins of the world, was raised from the dead on the 3rd day in a tangible glorified body of flesh and bone, Jesus ascended to the right hand of the father where he is presently

Jesus will return immediately after a future 3.5 year great tribulation, in fire and final judgment, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire (The End)
Jesus will return after a future 7 year great tribulation, of which the last 3.5 years includes the time God will pour out His wrath on the kingdom of the beast and his image. Jesus will return to defeat the forces of the beast and his image attacking Jerusalem. At this time He will establish His millennial kingdom on the throne of King David in Jerusalem, fulfilling God's promises to His chosen people Israel in the Old Testament. At this time, He will come to the remaining Jewish people who will, via Zechariah, recognize Him as Jesus who was crucified, and recognize His second coming as Israel's Messiah. At the end of the millennial kingdom, Jesus will finally and completely defeat Satan and the deceived inhabitants of the earth during the millennial kingdom, and following that, God will destroy His creation and bring in the new. Don't allegorize scripture, or you will have to consider that those who said Jesus didn't physically come to earth the first time could be right, because you would then have to allegorize Jesus first coming.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Jesus will return after a future 7 year great tribulation, of which the last 3.5 years includes the time God will pour out His wrath on the kingdom of the beast and his image. Jesus will return to defeat the forces of the beast and his image attacking Jerusalem. At this time He will establish His millennial kingdom on the throne of King David in Jerusalem, fulfilling God's promises to His chosen people Israel in the Old Testament. At this time, He will come to the remaining Jewish people who will, via Zechariah, recognize Him as Jesus who was crucified, and recognize His second coming as Israel's Messiah. At the end of the millennial kingdom, Jesus will finally and completely defeat Satan and the deceived inhabitants of the earth during the millennial kingdom, and following that, God will destroy His creation and bring in the new. Don't allegorize scripture, or you will have to consider that those who said Jesus didn't physically come to earth the first time could be right, because you would then have to allegorize Jesus first coming.
Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
 
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Truth7t7

Well-known member
At this time He will establish His millennial kingdom on the throne of King David in Jerusalem, fulfilling God's promises to His chosen people Israel in the Old Testament. At this time, He will come to the remaining Jewish people who will, via Zechariah, recognize Him as Jesus who was crucified, and recognize His second coming as Israel's Messiah. At the end of the millennial kingdom, Jesus will finally and completely defeat Satan and the deceived inhabitants of the earth during the millennial kingdom, and following that, God will destroy His creation and bring in the new. Don't allegorize scripture, or you will have to consider that those who said Jesus didn't physically come to earth the first time could be right, because you would then have to allegorize Jesus first coming.
Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false, he warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
I take it you used sharp scissors to remove part of the book of Revelation, completely ignoring the warning that all the punishments listed within fall upon the person who does that. Logically, and realistically, Revelation 20 comes before Revelation 21.
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false, he warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
So, how exactly do you allegorize Jesus first coming? Did He only come spiritually? Do you still deny that God did not change, and that Jesus second coming is also prophesied literally? Why do you ignore all the prophecies of the second coming, and allegorize everything else?

For instance, scripture states that it is appointed once for all men to die and then judgement. Even Jesus died, and the result of His judgement was resurrection. God was satisfied by Jesus sacrifice, and the Father raised His Son from the dead. However, there are TWO people in scripture who have never died. How are they raised higher than Jesus in this regard, and allowed to remain that way against scripture? But wait, in Revelation there is a prophecy that God will send...well... TWO prophets, who at the end of their mission on earth will be killed. What, you mean God actually leaves no plot holes? I believe those two witnesses WILL BE Enoch and Elijah. They will die as all humans do at the end of the mission God gives them. God leaves no loose ends.

Revelation 20 "
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pita and a great chain. 2And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

4Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

The Defeat of Satan

7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heavenb and consumed them, 10and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

There is so much scripture that you have removed from the book of Revelation.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
So, how exactly do you allegorize Jesus first coming? Did He only come spiritually? Do you still deny that God did not change, and that Jesus second coming is also prophesied literally? Why do you ignore all the prophecies of the second coming, and allegorize everything else?

For instance, scripture states that it is appointed once for all men to die and then judgement. Even Jesus died, and the result of His judgement was resurrection. God was satisfied by Jesus sacrifice, and the Father raised His Son from the dead. However, there are TWO people in scripture who have never died. How are they raised higher than Jesus in this regard, and allowed to remain that way against scripture? But wait, in Revelation there is a prophecy that God will send...well... TWO prophets, who at the end of their mission on earth will be killed. What, you mean God actually leaves no plot holes? I believe those two witnesses WILL BE Enoch and Elijah. They will die as all humans do at the end of the mission God gives them. God leaves no loose ends.

Revelation 20 "
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pita and a great chain. 2And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

4Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

The Defeat of Satan

7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heavenb and consumed them, 10and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

There is so much scripture that you have removed from the book of Revelation.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)?

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Why is it that people who believe as you do always get tripped up, and fall on their faces in front of this verse. You do realize that the two terms at the end of the verse CANCEL EACHOTHER OUT. It is logic, and God is a logical ration being, to the point that He presented Himself in the Old Testament by saying, "Come let us reason together". It is also a simile, which means figurative language. There is no way to pull a literal understanding out of this figurative passage. It is AS a thousand years, it is AS a day. It does not say a thousand years IS A day. or a day IS A thousand years. It does not say that. What Peter is saying is that God does not EXPERIENCE time as we do. It doesn't mean He can't, but, since He does not find His existence in time, He is not bound to time. He CAN experience a one thousand year period of time as though it was one day. The thousand years STILL HAPPENED, it is just that to God, He can experience it as though it is one day. Unfortunately we have to experience every second, every minute, every hour, every day, etc. of that 1000 years. When it is symbolic, the prophet explains what they mean, such as when Daniel explained what one week of his 70 weeks prophecy represented. Those reading the prophecy were not expected to figure it out on their own, as this would be impossible.
Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
In the Old Testament we find that:
1. Physical Earthly Kingdom [Jerusalem]
2. Physical Earthly Throne [Throne of King David]
3. Physical mortal humans [Someone is living on Earth to be deceived at the end of the 1000 years. However, scripture does not say whether they are mortal as we are today, or if they have long lives that don't end until they are deceived by Satan and destroyed by Christ. At the end of the tribulation we notice the resurrection of believers who died in the tribulation, and we notice the punishment of the beast and his images, and His worshipers who ALSO took the mark. What about everyone else who survived the tribulation? Revelation does not mention them until after the 1000 years. The countries that get deceived come from somewhere.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Not sure why you would ask the same questions over and over and not respond to responses already given you.

You can start here, and address the points made, and then the other posts:

Sure there is:

Revelation 20:1-9
King James Version

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.




You improperly delete this teaching from Scripture and prooftext in a manner that has no consistency.

Here's your prooftexting:




Here is the Word of God:


Revelation 20:7-11 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



Kind of leaving some important events out, aren't you?


Continued...


God bless.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Why is it that people who believe as you do always get tripped up, and fall on their faces in front of this verse. You do realize that the two terms at the end of the verse CANCEL EACHOTHER OUT. It is logic, and God is a logical ration being, to the point that He presented Himself in the Old Testament by saying, "Come let us reason together". It is also a simile, which means figurative language. There is no way to pull a literal understanding out of this figurative passage. It is AS a thousand years, it is AS a day. It does not say a thousand years IS A day. or a day IS A thousand years. It does not say that. What Peter is saying is that God does not EXPERIENCE time as we do. It doesn't mean He can't, but, since He does not find His existence in time, He is not bound to time. He CAN experience a one thousand year period of time as though it was one day. The thousand years STILL HAPPENED, it is just that to God, He can experience it as though it is one day. Unfortunately we have to experience every second, every minute, every hour, every day, etc. of that 1000 years. When it is symbolic, the prophet explains what they mean, such as when Daniel explained what one week of his 70 weeks prophecy represented. Those reading the prophecy were not expected to figure it out on their own, as this would be impossible.

In the Old Testament we find that:
1. Physical Earthly Kingdom [Jerusalem]
2. Physical Earthly Throne [Throne of King David]
3. Physical mortal humans [Someone is living on Earth to be deceived at the end of the 1000 years. However, scripture does not say whether they are mortal as we are today, or if they have long lives that don't end until they are deceived by Satan and destroyed by Christ. At the end of the tribulation we notice the resurrection of believers who died in the tribulation, and we notice the punishment of the beast and his images, and His worshipers who ALSO took the mark. What about everyone else who survived the tribulation? Revelation does not mention them until after the 1000 years. The countries that get deceived come from somewhere.
A novel sized response, full of your words and void of scripture to support a literal 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, because it doesn't exist :)
 

armylngst

Well-known member
A novel sized response, full of your words and void of scripture to support a literal 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, because it doesn't exist :)
That is like the complete opposite of the conclusion reached by the church fathers. Even Augustine stated that scripture is clear on it. MIcah 4:1-4 "
“Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it. Many nations shall come and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.’ For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
“He shall judge between many peoples, and rebuke strong nations afar off; they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken” (Micah 4:1-4)."

There is so much literal prophecy that you just ignore. Revelation 20 says that Satan will be bound so that he can no longer deceive the nations. That deceit is clearly shown to be related to wars at the end of the 1000 years where Satan goes and deceives the nations of the world into making war against Jerusalem, the seat of David, where Jesus established His 1000 year reign.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
There is so much literal prophecy that you just ignore. Revelation 20 says that Satan will be bound so that he can no longer deceive the nations. That deceit is clearly shown to be related to wars at the end of the 1000 years where Satan goes and deceives the nations of the world into making war against Jerusalem, the seat of David, where Jesus established His 1000 year reign.
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

Revelation 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

So why was Peter, an inspired writer of Scripture, under the impression that Satan is not bound?


1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



God bless.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
So why was Peter, an inspired writer of Scripture, under the impression that Satan is not bound?


1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



God bless.
You have been "Clearly Shown" in Revelation 20:3 Satan is bound from one specific purpose "Only", and that is deceiving the nations to gather them to the final battle

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.
 
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armylngst

Well-known member
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

Revelation 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
This is obviously the reason why there are a lot of battles going on right now, since Satan is bound to keep this from happening. I mean, we have had two world wars within the last century. (Well one with a long gap) So it can't be right now, an it? What you don't understand is that there is a battle when Jesus comes to establish the millennial kingdom, and there is a battle at the end of the millennium. The first battle is with the army of the kingdom of the beast and his image, and the final battle is at the end of the millennium when Satan is released for one last attack against Christ's kingdom, where he will finally be defeated. Satan is the power behind the kingdom of the beast and his image. He is bound after this, at which time Christ establishes His millennial kingdom, and then he is released at the end to deceive the world for one last confrontation.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
This is obviously the reason why there are a lot of battles going on right now, since Satan is bound to keep this from happening. I mean, we have had two world wars within the last century. (Well one with a long gap) So it can't be right now, an it? What you don't understand is that there is a battle when Jesus comes to establish the millennial kingdom, and there is a battle at the end of the millennium. The first battle is with the army of the kingdom of the beast and his image, and the final battle is at the end of the millennium when Satan is released for one last attack against Christ's kingdom, where he will finally be defeated. Satan is the power behind the kingdom of the beast and his image. He is bound after this, at which time Christ establishes His millennial kingdom, and then he is released at the end to deceive the world for one last confrontation.
You deviate from my claim, as if it didn't exist "Why"?

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To The "Final" Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.
 

armylngst

Well-known member
You deviate from my claim, as if it didn't exist "Why"?

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To The "Final" Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.
Here's the problem. You can't interpret Revelation 20:3 using Revelation 20:7-8 because they aren't saying the same thing. Revelation 20:3 does not say that he is not deceiving nations into way as one specific purpose, but that he is not deceiving the nations at all. His deceptions are paused for 1000 years, and for good reason. Do you think Jesus wants sin to run rampant through His reign as king? Is He going to have His name in a III Chronicles stating that He did evil in the eyes of the Lord in that He continued to allow sin to reign in His kingdom? I don't think so. Not in the slightest.

At the end of the 1000 years it says he is to be released for a short time. Why? Well, God has determined that Satan will do only one thing, which is to attack Him who bound him, his enemy, Jesus, and His kingdom. He will go out and deceive them into war with Jesus. If you don't see how Revelation 20:7-8 does NOT change what Revelation 20:3 is actually saying, you need to go back and read it all again. This is not a 1 for 1 thing. Satans deception ends for 1000 years (all deception), and then he is released for a short time, the amount of time it takes Jesus to destroy him, and the armies of the world.
 
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Truth7t7

Well-known member
Here's the problem. You can't interpret Revelation 20:3 using Revelation 20:7-8 because they aren't saying the same thing. Revelation 20:3 does not say that he is not deceiving nations into way as one specific purpose, but that he is not deceiving the nations at all. His deceptions are paused for 1000 years, and for good reason. Do you think Jesus wants sin to run rampant through His reign as king? Is He going to have His name in a III Chronicles stating that He did evil in the eyes of the Lord in that He continued to allow sin to reign in His kingdom? I don't think so. Not in the slightest.

At the end of the 1000 years it says he is to be released for a short time. Why? Well, God has determined that Satan will do only one thing, which is to attack Him who bound him, his enemy, Jesus, and His kingdom. He will go out and deceive them into war with Jesus. If you don't see how Revelation 20:7-8 does NOT change what Revelation 20:3 is actually saying, you need to go back and read it all again. This is not a 1 for 1 thing. Satans deception ends for 1000 years (all deception), and then he is released for a short time, the amount of time it takes Jesus to destroy him, and the armies of the world.
Yes scripture clearly interprets itself, yes you are in denial of this factual truth

Revelation 20:3 shows Satan is bound from "Deceive The Nations", while Revelation 20:7-8 clearly interprets "Deceive The Nations" is to battle, not General evils in the world as you believe and teach

Revelation 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false, he warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Yes scripture clearly interprets itself, yes you are in denial of this factual truth

Revelation 20:3 shows Satan is bound from "Deceive The Nations", while Revelation 20:7-8 clearly interprets "Deceive The Nations" is to battle, not General evils in the world as you believe and teach
"3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."


As you can read, if you read it correctly, deceive the nations is never interpreted. Verse 3 makes it clear that it is all deception of the nations, so God's kingdom is free of sin. All verse 8 says is that when released, the goal of his deception of the nations is to gather them together to battle. This has no affect on Revelation 20:3, which just says that by being bound and thrown into the pit, he is no longer deceiving the nations at all. Understand, Satan is not omnipresent. If he is in the pit, he can't be out deceiving nations. When he is released, he only has a short time, a little season, and so goes out to gather the nations for battle. That is all these passages are saying. You add to Revelation, and you know the warning given about those who add to this book.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
"3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."


As you can read, if you read it correctly, deceive the nations is never interpreted. Verse 3 makes it clear that it is all deception of the nations, so God's kingdom is free of sin. All verse 8 says is that when released, the goal of his deception of the nations is to gather them together to battle. This has no affect on Revelation 20:3, which just says that by being bound and thrown into the pit, he is no longer deceiving the nations at all. Understand, Satan is not omnipresent. If he is in the pit, he can't be out deceiving nations. When he is released, he only has a short time, a little season, and so goes out to gather the nations for battle. That is all these passages are saying. You add to Revelation, and you know the warning given about those who add to this book.
We Disagree

Scripture clearly interprets itself, and Revelation 20:7-8 clearly teaches (Deceive The Nations) is to "Battle" not the binding of Satan from general evil

There won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth after the second coming of Jesus Christ as many believe and teach, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man found no place in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord
 

armylngst

Well-known member
We Disagree

Scripture clearly interprets itself, and Revelation 20:7-8 clearly teaches (Deceive The Nations) is to "Battle" not the binding of Satan from general evil
That is not what it says. Revelation 20:7-8 says is that at this time, the PURPOSE for Satan deceiving the nations is to gather them together for war. That is all it says. It is NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT, defining deceive the nations. There are many reasons to deceive the nations, so the verse gives the purpose Satan had AT THAT TIME. He is chained up to stop deceiving the nations, with no limits put on what that means. He is released, but only for a short while. On release, he goes to deceive the nations, but the purpose, AT THIS TIME (I repeat) is to gather the nations together for battle. Stop allegorizing. Read the verse as given.
There won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth after the second coming of Jesus Christ as many believe and teach, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man found no place in scripture
Because God lied in scripture. You have allegorized God's truth away. Church fathers going back to St. Augustine and earlier say that if one reads prophecy literally, there is a millennial kingdom on this earth, over Israel in Jerusalem. The first eschatological belief to come out of the church was premillennialism, also known as chilianism, and historic premillennialism. The chilianists had their own intersting, though strange beliefs. The believed that the millennial kingdom would being 6000 years after the end of the sixth day of Creation, and would end at 7000 years, as there was a seventh day of creation, a day of rest. They saw the millennial kingdom as being a period of rest and peace.

You have ignored much of the prophecies given in the Old Testament. That is on you.
Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)
Yet, it says in Zechariah that He personally goes to visit Israel, and they recognize Him whom they have pierced, and they are saved. This is the beginning of the millennial kingdom. It also speaks of the battles at the end of time, and judgement.
Jesus Is The Lord
Jesus is God.
 
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