Do the "elect", "chosen” or “choice” ones of God know who they are?

TheTruth

Active member
1 Cor. 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? Faith, of course! If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it? But I didn't receive it! ["Gallery" Translation]

John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. John 3:27
 

TheTruth

Active member
1 Cor. 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? Faith, of course! If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it? But I didn't receive it! ["Gallery" Translation]
Sounds more like the "Peanut Gallery" to me.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
God's grace is irresistible. And I can't "shipwreck, cast off" or "overthrow" my own belief no matter how hard unbelievers try.
Some have:
1Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
God's grace is irresistible. And I can't "shipwreck, cast off" or "overthrow" my own belief no matter how hard unbelievers try.

It makes more sense that all the warnings about apostasy are to people who aren't even saved and can't be saved because they are chosen to be reprobate.

They sure need that warning!!!
 

TheTruth

Active member
Some have:
1Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

It makes more sense that all the warnings about apostasy are to people who aren't even saved and can't be saved because they are chosen to be reprobate.

They sure need that warning!!!

That's their problem, as I am not them and nor am I held accountable for their actions. God saves and not us.

So, I can only conclude that those who can wilfully "shipwreck, cast off" or "overthrow" "THEIR OWN" faith were never "chosen" to begin with and lived a lie.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
...
So, I can only conclude that those who can wilfully "shipwreck, cast off" or "overthrow" "THEIR OWN" faith were never "chosen" to begin with and lived a lie.
Are you saying the un-chosen had unsaving faith to cast off; or, is there where Evanescent grace comes in?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast.
That passage is referring to works of the law...
Enduring to the end is evidence of salvation,
enduring to the end ie working out your salvation
which means that we shall be saved at the end.
That is what I have been saying all along
There are past, present and future elements of salvation: we have been saved, we are saved and we shall be saved; but, they are all elements of the one salvation, which is eternal.
Actually, it is. We were saved. We are being saved, and we shall be saved... To say we are saved means it is the final act.
Hope, in the NT, means steadfast confidence for the future, which you can only have if you are already saved.
Paul tells us what hope means...
Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Can you show a passage where it says hope means steadfast confidence for the future?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
To cultivate (a more precise translation than "work out") your salvation means that you already have it. You cannot cultivate (or work out) something that you do not have!
The context of that passage does not say you already have attained salvation... People do not hope for what they already have...
Here is another passage showing salvation is yet to be attained...
1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Here is another, it says at the end of your faith you receive salvation...
1Peter 1
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
God's word states:
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
That simply means that God uses preaching to deliver the message of salvation...Learn the parable of the sower and the seeds...
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
That simply means that God uses preaching to deliver the message of salvation...Learn the parable of the sower and the seeds...
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Are you saying 'that believe' is redundant?
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Are you saying 'that believe' is redundant?
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Where did I say that? People who believe the preacher actually obey what the preacher says by completing the action...If you believe Jesus please tell us what Jesus commanded you to do through his apostles, that you believe and obeyed and are currently obeying?
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
I agree.

If salvation is a act of God and He is the only one that can save people, then why are there "saved people" who believe that they contributed to their salvation and done something to save themselves?
Who said anything about people saving themselves?
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Where did I say that? People who believe the preacher actually obey what the preacher says by completing the action...If you believe Jesus please tell us what Jesus commanded you to do through his apostles, that you believe and obeyed and are currently obeying?
Is that not what 1Cor 1:21 states; God saves those who believe.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Who are those whom God chooses to save?

Scripturally, God saves those who believe:
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, [/u]it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.[/u]


Belief/faith is the means by which one is saved.
What you are dancing around and not addressing is that God will have mercy and compassion on who He wills.
So it does not depend on your will or on exertion but only on God.

Jesus the author of faith as per scripture.

You just choose to believe self over the word of God is all.

Did God have mercy and compassion on you because of your free will or exertion?
Can you answer?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Is that not what 1Cor 1:21 states; God saves those who believe.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
No it says..For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. You just left out preaching, Paul explains this here...

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It is clear in the passage that people hear and some believe but not all obey...This brings us back to James...faith without works is dead (ineffective)
 
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