Do the "elect", "chosen” or “choice” ones of God know who they are?

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
No it says..For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. You just left out preaching, ...
That does not take away from God saving those who believe the preached word.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
What you are dancing around and not addressing is that God will have mercy and compassion on who He wills.
So it does not depend on your will or on exertion but only on God....
Can you answer?
God has mercy and compassion on those who fear God. Who said anything about God saving me because of my will or exertion?
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No contradiction:
Psalm 147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.
And you keep saying that means that His mercy is dependent on hope, or human will or exertion.

You just cannot face the truth, can you?
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
God has mercy and compassion on those who fear God. Who said anything about God saving me because of my will or exertion?
God does not have mercy and compassion on those who do not fear Him.
His mercy and compassion is not dependent on the fear of man.
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Why do you speak out of both sides of your mouth?
You freely chose to fear God and that lead Him to show you mercy and compassion, right?
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
God does not have mercy and compassion on those who do not fear Him.
His mercy and compassion is not dependent on the fear of man.
...
Psalm 147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

...
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Context:
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Pretenders who shipwreck God's irresistible gift of faith?


The same false prophets whom Christ bought, and to whom were given the irresistible gift of faith?
Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

I wonder if you are at all able to discern the difference between the first two and the last. Does it speak of them striving in keeping their faith.

A faith that comes from free will choices is indeed not irresistible.

Someone who chooses to believe can also choose not to believe. They are oxymoronic.

Hebrews 1 Defines faith.
There is assurance and conviction.

If you have assurance that Jesus Christ is your savior it means you are sure.
If you have a conviction from self that He is Lord and Savior, then self can unconvict at any time.

When God reveals to you that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior, it does not come from self, but from God.
Jesus is then the author of your faith through revelation. He is also the perfecter of your faith through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Those who have self will choice as the author of their faith, will never have their faith perfected and can choose to stop believing at any moment.

I am not stupid enough to think I believe the revealed truth that Christ is my Lord and Savior with full assurance and conviction, and then to say I don't believe in Christ as my Lord and savior because my assurance and conviction was wrong. That would deny the Sovereignty of God.

If I were to have a faith born from my will and choices, devoid of re-birth which is spiritual and not by self will, then that assurance and conviction is based on self and I can change my mind any time. That makes my will sovereign over my life and a pretender, of which their are many.

It is not difficult to see in which category the deniers of total and absolute salvation fall.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Psalm 147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.
And???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
His mercy is not dependent on their fear.
Those who fear Him already received His compassion and mercy.
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Your premise that God has mercy because people fear Him is false and goes against scripture!

Context:
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
And???????????????
What is your context, that she knew that God would have mercy on the younger and not the older?
 

TheTruth

Active member
Pretenders who shipwreck God's irresistible gift of faith?

The same false prophets whom Christ bought, and to whom were given the irresistible gift of faith?

No, I mean someone who "did not believe" to begin with, but just pretends, a person like Judas Iscariot.

But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. John 6:64

Who said anything about people saving themselves?

If you think your own "will" had anything to do your salvation, then you must have saved yourself.

13 And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, 14 to which He did call you through our good news, to the acquiring of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ; 15 so, then, brethren, stand ye fast, and hold the deliverances that ye were taught, whether through word, whether through our letter; 16 and may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and our God and Father, who did love us, and did give comfort age-during, and good hope in grace, 17 comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17
 
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PeanutGallery

Well-known member
No, I mean someone who "did not believe" to begin with, but just pretends, a person like Judas Iscariot.
Someone who does not believe yet cast off their first faith.
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

...
If you think your own "will" had anything to do your salvation, then you must have saved yourself.
More projection on your part; I did not say my will had anything to do with my salvation.
 

David1701

Well-known member
That passage is referring to works of the law...
It is referring to any and all works by which someone might try to be saved. We are not saved by anything that we do; we are saved by what God does in us and for us.

enduring to the end ie working out your salvation
Outworking your salvation is cultivating it, not "enduring to the end", which is a separate subject.

That is what I have been saying all along
No, it's not. Out final salvation includes the resurrection, when we will be saved from our corrupt bodies and this sinful world. This does not mean that we are not already saved; it just means that not all elements of that salvation have been applied yet.

Actually, it is. We were saved. We are being saved, and we shall be saved... To say we are saved means it is the final act.
No, it does not. To say that we are saved, means that we are no longer under God's wrath and condemnation; it means that we have fellowship with the Lord; we have forgiveness and have been adopted into his family; we are sheep that have been gathered to the Good Shepherd and can never perish; we have been born again and cannot return to a life characterised by sin, because of our new nature. We have the Holy Spirit indwelling, as a down-payment, guaranteeing final payment (i.e. the resurrection and all that means).

Paul tells us what hope means...
Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Can you show a passage where it says hope means steadfast confidence for the future?
Yes; the passage you quoted here means exactly that. We are saved by means of steadfast confidence in Christ, for our future.
 

fltom

Well-known member
It is referring to any and all works by which someone might try to be saved. We are not saved by anything that we do; we are saved by what God does in us and for us.

Good thing faith is not a work according to context

Ephesians 2:8–9 (KJV 1900)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

TheTruth

Active member
Someone who does not believe yet cast off their first faith.
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

Yes. They are referred to as "wolves" and "false prophets" in the Bible.

More projection on your part; I did not say my will had anything to do with my salvation.

Strawman. No, it is called logic.
And if you believe that you have "free will" to choose God rather than God choosing you, then you must have saved yourself. However, if one believes God has chosen them by making them believe, then that's God's salvation.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Yes. They are referred to as "wolves" and "false prophets" in the Bible.
"Wolves" and "false prophets' who cast off their first irresistible faith:
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.


...
Strawman. No, it is called logic.
And if you believe that you have "free will" to choose God rather than God choosing you, then you must have saved yourself. However, if one believes God has chosen them by making them believe, then that's God's salvation.
Yet more projection. Are you saying the publican chose God instead of God choosing the publican; therefore, he must have saved himself.

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Yes. They are referred to as "wolves" and "false prophets" in the Bible.



Strawman. No, it is called logic.
And if you believe that you have "free will" to choose God rather than God choosing you, then you must have saved yourself. However, if one believes God has chosen them by making them believe, then that's God's salvation.
Nowhere stated in the bible
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That does not take away from God saving those who believe the preached word.
Well, tell us how he saves those who believe. You seem to be projecting something other than preaching as stated in the context of the passage. The way I see it, those who believe must obey what was preached to them.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Well, tell us how he saves those who believe.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

You seem to be projecting something other than preaching as stated in the context of the passage.
What exactly do you think I am projecting; I can't read your mind.

The way I see it, those who believe must obey what was preached to them.
You think I am projecting that one need not obey the preaching? We are told to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 
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