Do the "elect", "chosen” or “choice” ones of God know who they are?

TheTruth

Active member
"Wolves" and "false prophets' who cast off their first irresistible faith:
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

Strawman, no. "Wolves" and "false prophets' never had "irresistible faith" to begin with, they are pretenders like Judas.

Yet more projection. Are you saying the publican chose God instead of God choosing the publican; therefore, he must have saved himself.

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Another strawman. No, I am saying anyone who believes God; God chooses them to do so. Or in other words their belief/faith comes from and originates in God. Where do you think belief/faith originated from; God or man?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Strawman, no. "Wolves" and "false prophets' never had "irresistible faith" to begin with, they are pretenders like Judas.



Another strawman. No, I am saying anyone who believes God; God chooses them to do so. Or in other words their belief/faith comes from and originates in God. Where do you think belief/faith originated from; God or man?
Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Strawman, no. "Wolves" and "false prophets' never had "irresistible faith" to begin with, they are pretenders like Judas.
From where did their 'first faith' originate?


Another strawman. No, I am saying anyone who believes God; God chooses them to do so. Or in other words their belief/faith comes from and originates in God. Where do you think belief/faith originated from; God or man?
God's word:
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

TheTruth

Active member
I noticed you produce no verse

why is that?

Can you not support your belief biblically?

Are you serious, you really think that there are no verses in the Bible indicating that God uses belief/faith to choose believers? The reason I didn't post any was I didn't think there was a "believer" mislead enough to say there aren't, but here you are doing just that.

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

And here are 90+ more verses indicating that God uses belief to choose believers. Why do you think that God's children are called believer?
 

TheTruth

Active member
From where did their 'first faith' originate?

If you do not believe, then you are not a believer, but a unbeliever. The past and future are irrelevent, because belief/faith ONLY exists and applies to the present tense.

But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. John 6:64

God's word:
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You still have to believe in what you're "hearing" before you become a believer. Hence the word "believer".
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
If you do not believe, then you are not a believer, but a unbeliever. The past and future are irrelevent, because belief/faith ONLY exists and applies to the present tense.
Does not answer the question:
From where did their 'first faith' originate?
 

TheTruth

Active member
Does not answer the question:
From where did their 'first faith' originate?

That's funny, the original belief/faith originated in and with God.

Another strawman. No, I am saying anyone who believes God; God chooses them to do so. Or in other words their belief/faith comes from and originates in God. Where do you think belief/faith originated from; God or man?
 
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fltom

Well-known member
Are you serious, you really think that there are no verses in the Bible indicating that God uses belief/faith to choose believers? The reason I didn't post any was I didn't think there was a "believer" mislead enough to say there aren't, but here you are doing just that.

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

And here are 90+ more verses indicating that God uses belief to choose believers. Why do you think that God's children are called believer?
None of those verses states God chose anyone to become a believer

Try again
 

TheTruth

Active member
No evidence God choses one to become a believer
None of those verses states God chose anyone to become a believer

Try again

You're delusional.

If God uses belief to make Himself known to believers, then God must use belief to choose believers.

And if you think He doesn't, then you need to show what He does use other than belief to choose and make Himself known to believers.

And if you don't know, then stop pretending you do.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:16-18

And here is 99 verses more supporting my claim that God uses belief to make Himself known to believers aka uses belief to choose believers.
 

fltom

Well-known member
You're delusional.

If God uses belief to make Himself known to believers, then God must use belief to choose believers.

And if you think He doesn't, then you need to show what He does use other than belief to choose and make Himself known to believers.

And if you don't know, then stop pretending you do.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:16-18

And here is 99 verses more supporting my claim that God uses belief to make Himself known to believers aka uses belief to choose believers.
LOL

Still nothing there about God chosing to make one a believer
 

TheTruth

Active member
It is possible then to cast away the 'first faith' which originated from God?

How do you know, when the only way that you could know that God's belief/faith can be "cast away" is through first hand experience?

There is only one belief/faith that's God's, and that one lasts for eternity. So, I don't recognize your "first faith" as biblical faith.
 

TheTruth

Active member
LOL

Still nothing there about God chosing to make one a believer

LOL

Still nothing but God choosing His children by belief/faith I see.

I have 100s of Bible verses that support God uses belief to make Himself known to believers and you have not one verse that belief isn't what God uses to choose His children. So, the score is approximately 500 to 0 for the Home team.

You still have nothing but your unbelief and misunderstanding of Scripture.
 
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fltom

Well-known member
LOL

Still nothing but God choosing His children by belief/faith I see.

I have 100s of Bible verses that support God uses belief to make Himself known to believers and you have not one verse that belief isn't what God uses to choose His children. So, the score is approximately 500 to 0 for the Home team.

You still have nothing but your unbelief and misunderstanding of Scripture.
So why have not posted one where God choses one to be a believer

not as you now divert and state

"Still nothing but God choosing His children by belief/faith I see."


which is not the same thing
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
...
There is only one belief/faith that's God's, and that one lasts for eternity. So, I don't recognize your "first faith" as biblical faith.
"first faith" and "shipwrecked faith" are biblical; the question is what are its origin.
1Tim 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
 

TheTruth

Active member
So why have not posted one where God choses one to be a believer

not as you now divert and state

"Still nothing but God choosing His children by belief/faith I see."

which is not the same thing

I have, but it is just invisible to unbelievers.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 2 Thessaloians 2:13-15

“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. Isaiah 43:10

I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he. John 13:19

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7

And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6
 

fltom

Well-known member
I have, but it is just invisible to unbelievers.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 2 Thessaloians 2:13-15

“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. Isaiah 43:10

I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he. John 13:19

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7

And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6
Not a single word about any being chosen to be believers

Hello

Why do you claim one thing then post about another?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
They were saved without baptism.
Because baptism is for the living...Baptism signifies death and resurrection...
Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Those who died before the church was established went to a place Jesus referred to as Abraham's bosom.
Luke 16
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

There is no preacher there, and no command to be baptized.
 
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