Do the "elect", "chosen” or “choice” ones of God know who they are?

Newbirth

Well-known member
Is one saved after belief and baptism; or, is one saved by belief, then are baptized?
Those who endure to the end shall be saved...
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Your argument is with Jesus, not me.
I have no issue with baptism; I was baptized twice: once as an infant without belief, which did not save me;
because it is not scripture...
then baptized again, as an adult in a lake, after I believed and was saved.
But what exactly did you believe? You did not even mention repent, which goes hand in hand with baptism. You seem to be saying that you are saved because you believe you are saved...
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
People are Saved when they believe, before they are Baptized.
Where does the scripture say that? The scripture says those who endure to the end shall be saved... You are saying that people are saved when they believe.
They are Baptized into Discipleship. 'Disciple' does not Conflate with 'Believer', but Conflates with 'Student'...
They are baptized into Jesus' death...
Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Where does the scripture say that? The scripture says those who endure to the end shall be saved... You are saying that people are saved when they believe.

They are baptized into Jesus' death...
Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Scripture Alone - by ReverendRV

Genesis 1:1 KJV
; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Through Faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. So God created Man in his own image, in the image of God created him; male and female created he them. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the Garden thou may freely eat; but of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired to make them wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he ate it. At once they saw what they had done, and they realized they were naked. Then they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. ~ For the wages of Sin is Death…

All that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. ~ Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him and he began to teach them. He said: "You’ve heard the Commandment that says, 'You must not commit adultery.' but I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. Anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.” ~ For whoever keeps the whole Law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it…

The wages of Sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal Life! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory; Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. For by Grace you are Saved through Faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by Works so that no one can boast. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ~ I’ve passed on to you what is most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our Sins, just as the Scriptures said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said. The Lord will rescue us from every evil deed and will bring us safely to his Heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen…

Revelation 22:20-21 KJV; He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Scripture Alone - by ReverendRV

Genesis 1:1 KJV
; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Through Faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. So God created Man in his own image, in the image of God created him; male and female created he them. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the Garden thou may freely eat; but of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired to make them wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he ate it. At once they saw what they had done, and they realized they were naked. Then they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. ~ For the wages of Sin is Death…

All that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. ~ Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him and he began to teach them. He said: "You’ve heard the Commandment that says, 'You must not commit adultery.' but I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. Anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.” ~ For whoever keeps the whole Law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it…

The wages of Sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal Life! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory; Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. For by Grace you are Saved through Faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by Works so that no one can boast. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ~ I’ve passed on to you what is most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our Sins, just as the Scriptures said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said. The Lord will rescue us from every evil deed and will bring us safely to his Heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen…

Revelation 22:20-21 KJV; He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
You said...People are Saved when they believe, before they are Baptized.

I asked you where does the scripture say that?... Your response should be a quote from the scripture saying exactly that...
Nothing you said says or implies...People are Saved when they believe, before they are Baptized.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
You said...People are Saved when they believe, before they are Baptized.

I asked you where does the scripture say that?... Your response should be a quote from the scripture saying exactly that...
Nothing you said says or implies...People are Saved when they believe, before they are Baptized.
Noah's real Ark - by ReverendRV

1st Peter 3:20 NIV
; those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

One of the most amazing things about the Bible is that in the Old Testament, there are SO many pictures of Christ before he was even born. You ask, “What do you mean?” The Old Testament is full of what Theologians call ‘Types’; these are examples where God meant to teach Israel about Redemption, and these examples pointed to a future Messiah. One of my favorite Old Testament Types of Jesus, is that of Noah’s Ark. ~ There came a time that the wickedness of Mankind gave cause for God to judge and condemn the world by flooding it to death. Noah found Grace in the eyes of God and was given time to build an Ark which would Save them. Everyone mocked Noah but before the rains came, God closed him and his family safely within the Ark. The waters rose but the Ark sailed safely through the seas of God’s wrath, and Noah came out alive on the other side. ~ “But why should this be important to me?”

The reason is because there is a future Wrath of God coming; but this time by Fire. God gave the world another chance when he made known his Ten Commandments. Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call people who lie about you? A Liar, right?. Have you ever stolen anything? What would you call someone who cheated you out of something that was rightfully yours? A Thief, right?. Have you ever cheated with a married person? Then you’ve stolen from their Spouse and are an Adulterous Burglar at heart. ~ These are just some of the Ten Commandments, if God judged you by this standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Guilty Sinners navigate through eternity in the lake of fire without an Ark to keep them from suffering the wrath of God. Here’s your last chance; the New Testament Anti Type of the Ark…

An Old Testament Type points to the future reality which it represented; a New Testament Anti Type points back to the Old Testament Type. Saint Peter said that Water Baptism is a Type which pictured being Saved from the Wrath of God by Noah’s Ark. Jesus Christ is like that Ark which we enter and God closes the door behind us. He was the only person who never Sinned, and this made him a sea worthy vessel to make it through the Wrath of God. Jesus received God’s Wrath and died on a cross, shedding his blood to pay for our Sin. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, apart from trying to Work ourselves into sea worthy condition; it’s too late for that. Repent of your Sins and find a Bible believing Church who will Baptize you. ~ Noah’s Ark was shaped like a casket. Many believe that the Ark went under during the storm but rose from the depths. Baptism represents the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. There’s a Church Denomination that teaches Baptism Saves you, but Jesus said Baptism makes us students in his Class. This Denomination uses a verse which tells us to be Baptized for the Remission of Sins; but the word ‘for’ means ‘because of’. If we read a Wanted Poster and it said a man is wanted ‘for’ Murder, we don’t apply for the job; he is wanted because of Murder. Get Baptized because you believe in Jesus Christ, because he was Baptized in the Wrath of God for you…

1st Peter 3:21 NKJV
; There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Noah's real Ark - by ReverendRV

1st Peter 3:20 NIV
; those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

One of the most amazing things about the Bible is that in the Old Testament, there are SO many pictures of Christ before he was even born. You ask, “What do you mean?” The Old Testament is full of what Theologians call ‘Types’; these are examples where God meant to teach Israel about Redemption, and these examples pointed to a future Messiah. One of my favorite Old Testament Types of Jesus, is that of Noah’s Ark. ~ There came a time that the wickedness of Mankind gave cause for God to judge and condemn the world by flooding it to death. Noah found Grace in the eyes of God and was given time to build an Ark which would Save them. Everyone mocked Noah but before the rains came, God closed him and his family safely within the Ark. The waters rose but the Ark sailed safely through the seas of God’s wrath, and Noah came out alive on the other side. ~ “But why should this be important to me?”

The reason is because there is a future Wrath of God coming; but this time by Fire. God gave the world another chance when he made known his Ten Commandments. Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call people who lie about you? A Liar, right?. Have you ever stolen anything? What would you call someone who cheated you out of something that was rightfully yours? A Thief, right?. Have you ever cheated with a married person? Then you’ve stolen from their Spouse and are an Adulterous Burglar at heart. ~ These are just some of the Ten Commandments, if God judged you by this standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Guilty Sinners navigate through eternity in the lake of fire without an Ark to keep them from suffering the wrath of God. Here’s your last chance; the New Testament Anti Type of the Ark…

An Old Testament Type points to the future reality which it represented; a New Testament Anti Type points back to the Old Testament Type. Saint Peter said that Water Baptism is a Type which pictured being Saved from the Wrath of God by Noah’s Ark. Jesus Christ is like that Ark which we enter and God closes the door behind us. He was the only person who never Sinned, and this made him a sea worthy vessel to make it through the Wrath of God. Jesus received God’s Wrath and died on a cross, shedding his blood to pay for our Sin. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, apart from trying to Work ourselves into sea worthy condition; it’s too late for that. Repent of your Sins and find a Bible believing Church who will Baptize you. ~ Noah’s Ark was shaped like a casket. Many believe that the Ark went under during the storm but rose from the depths. Baptism represents the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. There’s a Church Denomination that teaches Baptism Saves you, but Jesus said Baptism makes us students in his Class. This Denomination uses a verse which tells us to be Baptized for the Remission of Sins; but the word ‘for’ means ‘because of’. If we read a Wanted Poster and it said a man is wanted ‘for’ Murder, we don’t apply for the job; he is wanted because of Murder. Get Baptized because you believe in Jesus Christ, because he was Baptized in the Wrath of God for you…

1st Peter 3:21 NKJV
; There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Writing a wall of text is evidence that you cannot explain your position... You are evading the question.
Where is the passage that says...Jesus said Baptism makes us students in his Class. I dare you to quote Jesus saying that from the scripture, chapter and verse...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Writing a wall of text is evidence that you cannot explain your position... You are evading the question.
Where is the passage that says...Jesus said Baptism makes us students in his Class. I dare you to quote Jesus saying that from the scripture, chapter and verse...
You'll have to wait until someone else speaks to you, and I speak to you through them; you're too demanding...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
They were saved without baptism.

The thief on the cross was alive and was not baptized, yet Jesus told him that he would be in paradise.
Amen...

Matthew 28:19-20; Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 
Last edited:

Newbirth

Well-known member
They were saved without baptism.
They were awaiting Jesus to be delivered from captivity...If they were already saved then jesus wouldn't have had to preach to them.
1 Pet 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The thief on the cross was alive and was not baptized, yet Jesus told him that he would be in paradise.
The thief on the cross died and went to hell...Jesus went to hell and preached to the captives there.
Learn the scripture..
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
They were awaiting Jesus to be delivered from captivity...If they were already saved then jesus wouldn't have had to preach to them.
1 Pet 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The thief on the cross died and went to hell...Jesus went to hell and preached to the captives there.
Learn the scripture..
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Are you saying the thief was baptized in hell after he heard Jesus preach?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Amen...

Matthew 28:19-20; Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Hey ReverendRV, can you quote the passage in scripture where the apostles actually used that formula?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Are you saying the thief was baptized in hell after he heard Jesus preach?
Based on what are you assuming that I am saying the thief was baptized in hell after he heard Jesus preach? Don't you know that baptism and repentance only apply to the living? The Church (The Kingdom of Heaven) was established on the day of Pentecost with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This is where believers seek refuge until the last day when Jesus grants them eternal life. Being born of water(baptism) is a prerequisite to entering into the Kingdom of Heaven.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
... Don't you know that baptism and repentance only apply to the living?...
The living thief on the cross was never baptized, yet went to be with the Lord.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The context is two births: physical birth of water and spiritual birth of the Spirit.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The living thief on the cross was never baptized, yet went to be with the Lord.
You are funny, the living thief did not go with Jesus anywhere. They both died on a cross. Their spirits went to hell. I posted the scripture that shows Jesus went to hell.
The context is two births: physical birth of water and spiritual birth of the Spirit.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Again, you are promoting your own doctrine... Jesus was not referring to a man being born from the womb a second time. Jesus was telling a man who was already born from the womb that except he is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That statement has no relation to his physical birth. It refers to water baptism and the gift of the HS. Peter conveys the message in Acts 2:38... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
You are funny, the living thief did not go with Jesus anywhere. They both died on a cross. Their spirits went to hell. I posted the scripture that shows Jesus went to hell.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 
Top