Do The People Have The Moral Authority To Outlaw Atheism?

JAG

Member
~~ or Christianity?
~~ or Secular Humanism?
~~ or Chewing Gum?

JAG Writes:
On Atheism there is no God.
So God and gods have no part in this OP's question.

Questions:
Are The People the Highest and the Final ,Authority?
If The People are not The Highest and The Final Authority, then Who or What is The Highest Authority?
Is there a Truth Reality out there that is above The People and has more authority than
The People?
If you say Yes to that question, then Who knows what or where that Truth Reality is?
Who knows what it is? {if it exists}
Who knows where it is located? {if it exists}
Who has the authority to interpret what that Truth Reality says? {if it exists}
What are their names?
Are you "one of them."?
___________

Let us say that 98% of The People Of Earth have outlawed Murder
and said "Thou Shall Not Murder"
Question: Do you have a moral obligation to obey The People
when they collectively issue a proclamation that murder is outlawed?

___________

Do The People have a Moral Right to outlaw chewing gum?
If you are a gum chewer, and 98% of The People of Earth voted to outlaw
chewing gum, would you be morally obligated to stop chewing gum?
___________

Let us also say that 98% of The People Of Earth issued a Moral Proclamation
that said:
"Henceforth The Teaching Of Secular Humanism Is Outlawed Upon Penalty Of Death"
Would you then be morally obligated to cease teaching the principles of Secular Humanism?
__________

Here is another version of the same thing leaving off the penalty.
Let us say that 98% of The People Of Earth issued a Moral Proclamation
that said:
"Henceforth The Teaching Of Secular Humanism Is Outlawed."
Would you be morally obligated to stop teaching the principles of Secular Humanism?

___________

Do 98% of The People of the Earth have the authority to precisely define what
is, or is not, moral and immoral?
If you say No, then what Authority is there, that has the Power or the Authority
to void the will of say 98% of The People of the Earth?

Is there a Truth Reality out there that has the Authority and the Power to void
the will of 98% of The People of the earth?
If yes, who has the Power and the Authority to interpret what that Truth Reality says?
Where are they located?
What are their names?
Are you one o them?

_______

Some Miscellaneous Thoughts Relating To This Question:

On Atheism there is no God.
The People are the Highest Authority.
The People are The Highest Supreme Being.
The People can speak through the political vehicle of Democracy?
Suppose The People want to Democratically outlaw your beliefs?
To what Authority would you appeal that would be higher than The People?
You could not appeal to God.
On Atheism there is no God.
It would be You vs. The People --and in a Democracy The People make the laws
and are The Supreme Being.
Do 98% The People of Earth have a Moral Right to outlaw the public expression
of your beliefs?
Do 98% of The People of the Earth have a Moral Right to outlaw Secularism Humanism?
Do 98% of The People of the Earth have a Moral Right to outlaw Christianity?
Is there a Truth Reality out there that has the Moral Authority to prevent
98% of The People collectively outlawing the public expression of
Atheism, or Secular Humanism or Christianity?

JAG
 

bigthinker

Active member
In America, human beings who have been chosen by other human beings, make laws.
In America, human beings police the laws made by humans.
In America, human beings judge the laws made by human beings.
 

Gary Mac

Member
If one is of God who is love, there is no law to govern it. It is who we are not what we try and make it by law.
 

Gary Mac

Member
Do you mean if one believes in God?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true, in your belief, that all of us were created by God?
No, if God is manifest in me, He will manifest Himself in you as well if you didnt have a pre-determind belief about God. It isnt a belief it is the manifestation of. WHy cant you relate to the difference? Is it because you only have a belief about a god?

I will correct you. God is Love, Love is a Spirit and man is the temple of. God created man in His image of Love. People get the creation of man in Gods image that has nothing at all to do with the mortal physical man other then the temple of Love and either one is in His image or one isnt.

Did a god take dirt and create a mortal man from it? Did a Man named Moses part the red sea and kill a whole army with it? DId a man take a jawbone of an ass and slay a whole army? DId a man walk on water?

These things are easy to impulsive pluck but to do these things as a son of God oneself who is love is a different matter. It is written that Peter jumped out of a boat to go to the one walking on water but on dry land he followed from far off. ANd on impules [people call out to Jesus especially in time of trouble or need but when it gest down to the brass tacts to walk as he walks they shy completly away from him in his way for Love. These do not need the grace of God to stand crises, human nature and pride are sufficient in that. But to maintain a 24-7 supernatural walk of Love as He walks and go through the drudgery of being a disciple where we have to be exceptional in the ordinary things to be of Holy Love in mean streets among mean people does not come naturally and is someting not learned by listening to 52 life changing sermons a year and reading a book and confess of it. People cling to the sensational as in walking on water when they cant even walk as he walks in Love on dry land.

Living the life of Christ is impossible for those who follow as Peter did afar and not get so close as to be like him.

It doesnt matter to me how I got here, that is up for debate, what does matter to me is who am I while I am here, and Love is just the better state of mind for me. It may not be for you but it is for me. I think Jesus had the same attitude for I can identify with him. Not many cant relate for all they see is the sensationl for they have made him a god instead of teacher of God who is Love. I dont know if a man named Jesus ever existed, but important is can I relate to the stories about him!
 

Gary Mac

Member
~~ or Christianity?
~~ or Secular Humanism?
~~ or Chewing Gum?

JAG Writes:
On Atheism there is no God.
So God and gods have no part in this OP's question.

Questions:
Are The People the Highest and the Final ,Authority?
If The People are not The Highest and The Final Authority, then Who or What is The Highest Authority?
Is there a Truth Reality out there that is above The People and has more authority than
The People?
If you say Yes to that question, then Who knows what or where that Truth Reality is?
Who knows what it is? {if it exists}
Who knows where it is located? {if it exists}
Who has the authority to interpret what that Truth Reality says? {if it exists}
What are their names?
Are you "one of them."?
___________

Let us say that 98% of The People Of Earth have outlawed Murder
and said "Thou Shall Not Murder"
Question: Do you have a moral obligation to obey The People
when they collectively issue a proclamation that murder is outlawed?

___________

Do The People have a Moral Right to outlaw chewing gum?
If you are a gum chewer, and 98% of The People of Earth voted to outlaw
chewing gum, would you be morally obligated to stop chewing gum?
___________

Let us also say that 98% of The People Of Earth issued a Moral Proclamation
that said:
"Henceforth The Teaching Of Secular Humanism Is Outlawed Upon Penalty Of Death"
Would you then be morally obligated to cease teaching the principles of Secular Humanism?
__________

Here is another version of the same thing leaving off the penalty.
Let us say that 98% of The People Of Earth issued a Moral Proclamation
that said:
"Henceforth The Teaching Of Secular Humanism Is Outlawed."
Would you be morally obligated to stop teaching the principles of Secular Humanism?

___________

Do 98% of The People of the Earth have the authority to precisely define what
is, or is not, moral and immoral?
If you say No, then what Authority is there, that has the Power or the Authority
to void the will of say 98% of The People of the Earth?

Is there a Truth Reality out there that has the Authority and the Power to void
the will of 98% of The People of the earth?
If yes, who has the Power and the Authority to interpret what that Truth Reality says?
Where are they located?
What are their names?
Are you one o them?

_______

Some Miscellaneous Thoughts Relating To This Question:

On Atheism there is no God.
The People are the Highest Authority.
The People are The Highest Supreme Being.
The People can speak through the political vehicle of Democracy?
Suppose The People want to Democratically outlaw your beliefs?
To what Authority would you appeal that would be higher than The People?
You could not appeal to God.
On Atheism there is no God.
It would be You vs. The People --and in a Democracy The People make the laws
and are The Supreme Being.
Do 98% The People of Earth have a Moral Right to outlaw the public expression
of your beliefs?
Do 98% of The People of the Earth have a Moral Right to outlaw Secularism Humanism?
Do 98% of The People of the Earth have a Moral Right to outlaw Christianity?
Is there a Truth Reality out there that has the Moral Authority to prevent
98% of The People collectively outlawing the public expression of
Atheism, or Secular Humanism or Christianity?

JAG
You are lord over your god for you have made him in your own image.
 

bigthinker

Active member
No, if God is manifest in me, He will manifest Himself in you as well if you didnt have a pre-determind belief about God.
Yes and Batman is manifestation in me, he will manifest himself in you as well if you didn't have a predetermined belief about Batman
It isnt a belief it is the manifestation of. WHy cant you relate to the difference? Is it because you only have a belief about a god?
It is the belief of manifestation. The manifestation is self-reported and not falsifiable.

I will correct you.
sadly, you won't.
God is Love, Love is a Spirit and man is the temple of. God created man in His image of Love. People get the creation of man in Gods image that has nothing at all to do with the mortal physical man other then the temple of Love and either one is in His image or one isnt.
Gary, this is a meaningful to me as explaining how the warp drive works in Star Trek.
Did a god take dirt and create a mortal man from it? Did a Man named Moses part the red sea and kill a whole army with it? DId a man take a jawbone of an ass and slay a whole army? DId a man walk on water?
Yes. that's all part of the story.
These things are easy to impulsive pluck but to do these things as a son of God oneself who is love is a different matter.
I think that at one point the Star Trek crew traveled through time to collect a whale.
An AMAZING feat, don't you agree!
It is written that Peter jumped out of a boat to go to the one walking on water but on dry land he followed from far off. ANd on impules [people call out to Jesus especially in time of trouble or need but when it gest down to the brass tacts to walk as he walks they shy completly away from him in his way for Love. These do not need the grace of God to stand crises, human nature and pride are sufficient in that. But to maintain a 24-7 supernatural walk of Love as He walks and go through the drudgery of being a disciple where we have to be exceptional in the ordinary things to be of Holy Love in mean streets among mean people does not come naturally and is someting not learned by listening to 52 life changing sermons a year and reading a book and confess of it. People cling to the sensational as in walking on water when they cant even walk as he walks in Love on dry land.

Living the life of Christ is impossible for those who follow as Peter did afar and not get so close as to be like him.

It doesnt matter to me how I got here, that is up for debate, what does matter to me is who am I while I am here, and Love is just the better state of mind for me. It may not be for you but it is for me. I think Jesus had the same attitude for I can identify with him. Not many cant relate for all they see is the sensationl for they have made him a god instead of teacher of God who is Love. I dont know if a man named Jesus ever existed, but important is can I relate to the stories about him!
Right. just as you can relate to stories about Batman and Star Trek.
Relatability doesn't mean it's real outside of the imagination or outside of the story.
 

Gary Mac

Member
Yes and Batman is manifestation in me, he will manifest himself in you as well if you didn't have a predetermined belief about Batman
Batman is a fictional character, Love is not. You dont seem to be able to distinguish what is real and what is fictional.
It is the belief of manifestation. The manifestation is self-reported and not falsifiable.
Only if you have not experience, then it is only a belief governed by the laws for it whch can be falsified.
sadly, you won't.
I know -- reality is not withn your comprehension for you keep stating it isnt over and over again. .
Gary, this is a meaningful to me as explaining how the warp drive works in Star Trek.
I agree, the only way to know how it works is operate it yourself until then it is only theory or fallacy.
Yes. that's all part of the story.

I think that at one point the Star Trek crew traveled through time to collect a whale.
An AMAZING feat, don't you agree!
It would be if it were true, just like killing a whole army with the jawbone of an ass, parting the Red Sea, walking on water, raising from the dead. . A good story with no substance to sustain the truth, only the morals of. You are not thinking these things through. You only can relate to fiction.
Right. just as you can relate to stories about Batman and Star Trek.
Relatability doesn't mean it's real outside of the imagination or outside of the story.
That is what I keepo trying to convey to you. Love is not fiction, Love is not manufactured, Love is a state of ones mind. BatMan is not a state of mind, walking on water is not a state of mind, Star SHip Enterprise is not a state of mind, these are only figmantes of ones imagination.

If Love is a figmant of your imagination then I do understand why you think it is a fallacy. I worship Love it is who I am not what I think about it. I live it in real time. That is beyond your comprehension that is very obvious for all these excuses you make to make it a fallacy. You comment about a subject that you are totally ignorant of.
 

bigthinker

Active member
Batman is a fictional character, Love is not. You dont seem to be able to distinguish what is real and what is fictional.
lol
Batman is love, you don't seem to be able distinguish between what is real and what is fictional. And you definitely don't understand that assertions are not fact.
Only if you have not experience, then it is only a belief governed by the laws for it whch can be falsified.

I know -- reality is not withn your comprehension for you keep stating it isnt over and over again.
Then we are arguing from the same position.
I agree, the only way to know how it works is operate it yourself until then it is only theory or fallacy.
I disagree as that is not how things are known. A theory is is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.
It would be if it were true, just like killing a whole army with the jawbone of an ass, parting the Red Sea, walking on water, raising from the dead. . A good story with no substance to sustain the truth, only the morals of. You are not thinking these things through. You only can relate to fiction.
I have video evidence of the events, what do you have, a mere book? ha ha!
That is what I keepo trying to convey to you. Love is not fiction, Love is not manufactured, Love is a state of ones mind.
Love exists in the mind, it is conceptual
BatMan is not a state of mind, walking on water is not a state of mind, Star SHip Enterprise is not a state of mind, these are only figmantes of ones imagination.
Technically love isn't a state of mind. Batman is conceptual just like love.
If Love is a figmant of your imagination
That isn't what I said. I said it is conceptualPlease strive for accuracy and intellectual honesty. If you have a question about my position, I am happy to explain and clarify. Also, make no assumptions
then I do understand why you think it is a fallacy.
I don't. You do a poor job of drawing conclusions.
I worship Love it is who I am not what I think about it. I live it in real time.
That's fine. You ought to also practice love, even when debating atheists.
That is beyond your comprehension that is very obvious for all these excuses you make to make it a fallacy. You comment about a subject that you are totally ignorant of.
You don't seem to understand that assertions are not reality. I've made a point that your beliefs are no more real than Batman or Star Trek stories. You should have no intellectual problem addressing this and following the point. And yet, ironically, you argue that love is conceptual (which is exactly my position).
If you'd like to make a case, you need to make a case. Don't merely assert because as easily as assertions can be made, they can be dismiss
 

Gary Mac

Member
lol
Batman is love, you don't seem to be able distinguish between what is real and what is fictional. And you definitely don't understand that assertions are not fact.

Well if Batman is Love and your disposition then I understan how you believe as you do. He is real and manifest in you.
Then we are arguing from the same position.

COmpletly opposit.
I disagree as that is not how things are known. A theory is is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.
Like BatMan? Sure the movie is real but only the figmentation of someones imagination. I suppose BatMan is real for you.
Technically love isn't a state of mind. Batman is conceptual just like love.

Only to you where love is only a concept with no reality for ones state of being. Your belief from a mind that is static and cannot learn a the unfimiliar. I worked with the Texas De[partment of Corrections for over 25 years counseling countless inmates where almost all of them cant comprehend the reality of they did someting wrong. And they were innicent in their minde nearly all were innocent of their alleged crimes. To them it was a fabrication of a truth. This is the same thing you are doing. Denying facts and cling to fiction only because you are not willing to seek out what is real and what isnt.

Your will is to be right is all, an ego, with no substance to back it up. Want proof Love is real and not just an emotion? There really is a way to learn of it.
That isn't what I said. I said it is conceptualPlease strive for accuracy and intellectual honesty. If you have a question about my position, I am happy to explain and clarify. Also, make no assumptions

Sure it is what you said. Love is not a concept at all. The concept is that Love is a concept. It isnt is reality of the disposition of the beholder of.

You are assuning yourself to be in a certain condition that you never have been in.
I don't. You do a poor job of drawing conclusions.
It isnt I who says love is only a concept.
That's fine. You ought to also practice love, even when debating atheists.
I have noting but Love for you else I would not be here to try and show you there ist. a better way of life. Somting real that you can cling to instead of speculationg about it in doubt. No way you can experience the reality of if to you it is only a concept and not real.
You don't seem to understand that assertions are not reality.
Oh this is the essence of this conversation. Your assertion of Love is only a concept and not reality.
I've made a point that your beliefs are no more real than Batman or Star Trek stories.
Yes you have for sure. But what you do not understand and dont seem to grasp the reality of. Star Trek and BatMan is your
relaity for you keep comparing everything to them with no reality of a truth at all. Fictional charactors yopu can identify
with, that is very obvious.

You should have no intellectual problem addressing this and following the point. And yet, ironically, you argue that love is
I had no problem at all addressing the truth. Bat Man and Star Trek is teh figment of someones imagination. Not real at all but a good story. Stories as the 10 commandments, Job, Abraham, Ada, Jesus, all are a good read as well. That does not mean these things happend no more than Star Trek or Bat Man. But they do cary a concept dont they?

If you'd like to make a case, you need to make a case. Don't merely assert because as easily as assertions can be made, they can be dismiss
Bingo, my point exactly you are making judgment purley from speculation with no substance to substantiate. There is proof of Love, Batman and Star Trek I would question the reality of.

Going to the Moon was a Star Trek concept intil the reality of.
 
Last edited:
Top