Do you accept what John 3:16 REALLY says?

Revelator

Member
John 3:16- For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, >>> God never came Himself/ 'Themselves'.
that whoever believes in him should not perish >>> Not be Forever Burned Alive ('Hellfire')...
but have eternal life. >>> NOT already HAVING it as 'IMMORTAL souls'...
 

Chuckz

Member
Do you see the word "should" there? Lots of things should happen.

Do you see the word "commit" in John 2:24? It is the same word.

Who is the Jesus that you believe in? The brother of Lucifer? Is that the Jesus you believe in? Is it the Jesus that is the Archangel?

If you believe in those Jesus's, you believe in the wrong Jesus.


Many people will believe in the wrong Jesus.

You actually have to believe in the right Jesus and come by God's will God's way.

Can people come not by faith? We see them all the time. They are after my money. They are after followers.


Do you want to follow those who arise to make disciples after themselves while they speak perverse things? Does that save?

Suppose they teach a Jesus you have to work for?

1 John 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

I hear people teach all the time that you have to keep the commandments to be saved which is a work making salvation or believing not of faith.

If your salvation is not of faith, it is a work and works don't save (Ephesians 2:8-9).

If you believe in the Jesus of works, it is another Jesus that doesn't save.

Its almost not enough to believe. You have to believe in the right Jesus and put your faith and trust in Jesus as if you were sitting on an invisible chair that holds you up. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and its all about taking heed how you hear.

 

Chuckz

Member
Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [a]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

There are even some charismatics that won't go to heaven:

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The question is, can people believe and not go to heaven? They are calling Him Lord. They do works for Him. They do many wonderful works for Him.

So what do they believe in that doesn't get them to heaven?
What don't they believe in that doesn't get them to heaven?
Why does the Bible say few find it (life)?

Many people heard. Many people go to church. Yet we're still stuck with this word "many" who go to destruction. Few find life.

Is what Jesus says a "Truism"? Or does God say what He says and mean what He says?
Some are not going to make it.

I don't have to figure it out. Some aren't going to make it and these people are making excuses on judgment day and they are not going to make it.
 

Chuckz

Member
TRUE- but, Chuck...do YOU believe in the "right" Jesus- or the church manufactured 'God-the-Son' Jesus?
The Church didn't manufacture God the Son Jesus. My fight has been with people who want to argue over basic Christian doctrine.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

How is it said that the Word was God unless He was already God?

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


John 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God took on an additional nature in John 1:14 which is a body.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

Chuckz

Member
You didn't answer my questions so neither am I answering yours.

This is not the debate board. I'm not interested at debating right now.

And let me guess, you are going to use the verses of God that show one person of the Trinity to prove He's not a Trinity. Its begging the question. Its a false argument. Strawman, etc., etc., etc.
 

John t

Active member
TRUE- but, Chuck...do YOU believe in the "right" Jesus- or the church manufactured 'God-the-Son' Jesus?

False choice dilemma here, aka "Hobson's Choice". There is no such thing as a "church-manufactured Jesus". Therefore, your question is a bogus "gotcha"

However, what you glossed over is the fact that there are many verses in the Bible, which demonstrate that
  1. God the Father is God
  2. Jesus the Son of God is fully God 100%
  3. Jesus the son of God is 100% man
  4. Holy Spirit is fully God
  5. There is such a thing as the Trinity, even though the word "trinity" is absent from the Bible.
 

Chuckz

Member
CARM is a discussion forum Part of that discussion requires debating. However, if you choose not to debate nor discuss, then that is your choice
A discussion can have a 500 word thesis or intro. To communicate you Describe the problem, Explain the problem, Specify how you want to handle the problem or what you want done, and give Consequences if the problem is not fixed. That is communication.

The thread starts with John 3:16, has possible gender inclusion, brings up hell and immortal souls.

I reply and I get topics about the right Jesus or a manufactured Jesus.

Then I get asked a leading question and I know better to answer leading questions. The leading question is followed by a forum discussion link. Is it an example of a thread hijack in progress? And isn't it throwing me into another discussion with multiple posts and or posters? Talk about information overload on my budgeted time.

Its not a discussion. Its we start out here and end up there kind of a discussion if you can call it that. Do you really want to treat people like that?

Relationships are reciprocal or complimentary so when I don't know where the poster is coming or going, its hard to reciprocate because the debate is not structured and it is going all over the place. I'm sorry if I cannot meet anyone at the objective here because there is none that I can see. I think it is called baiting among other things.

I'd rather have an academic discussion where there is a thesis, summary, body of information, etc. I know where the writer is coming, going and what is expected of me to have a conversation. I don't want a hodge podge of debate for the sake of controversy. This thread is confusion. If it continues, there will be many different bunny trails for me to be expected to hop along and to dive into bunny holes each with their own different underground trail. This is confusion.

And if you want people to be friends back, you have to play by their rules. You don't get everyone to play by your rules.
I live in a more structured environment where things are fair. I refuse to jump through hoops because someone just wants to have fun with me.

 

John t

Active member
And if you want people to be friends back, you have to play by their rules. You don't get everyone to play by your rules.
I live in a more structured environment where things are fair. I refuse to jump through hoops because someone just wants to have fun with me.

Here is the debate section of CARM https://forums.carm.org/#private-debates-pre-arranged.105

The "peanut gallery" cannot post there. If they do, the post gets deleted, and it iit happens over a time, there can be suspension of the offender
 

John t

Active member
At least I can agree with his: "WUHAN FLU: Made in China, and exported world wide in 2020"! :D
Thanks for the compliment.

I had a custom mask made that has that printed on it, but with less words. People like that mask.

Back to your not agreeing,

However, what you glossed over is the fact that there are many verses in the Bible, which demonstrate that
  1. God the Father is God
  2. Jesus the Son of God is fully God 100%
  3. Jesus the son of God is 100% man
  4. Holy Spirit is fully God
  5. There is such a thing as the Trinity, even though the word "trinity" is absent from the Bible.
Are you saying that the Bible does not teach those things above?
 

Chuckz

Member
Here is the debate section of CARM https://forums.carm.org/#private-debates-pre-arranged.105

The "peanut gallery" cannot post there. If they do, the post gets deleted, and it iit happens over a time, there can be suspension of the offender
You can debate him. Someone who skips and dances around a topic is not interested in having a discussion.
People use words as a shield and I cannot get a word in.
I'm here for the ones that can be saved because they want to.


If the heart does not want to believe then there is nothing I can say that would make a difference. Their minds are made up and they have to come to an end to themselves to listen.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. - John 3:20

They already said, "no" which is why they are fighting.

Don't make sport of me. Debate him and make sport of yourself.

I've been doing this since 1986 and what happens is people just make up excuses after excuses not to believe and if you go down this trail, you are focusing on debating instead of doing the great commission and teaching and all that is important.

If a person gets saved, I don't have to clean them up. They clean themselves up. People think if we clean up the world and all of the sin, things will fix themselves. They won't. You have to get the person saved first and then they start listening to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit tells them to clean up their act. You are not the Holy Spirit and I am not the Holy Spirit. Let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit. That's why you are all going about this all wrong.
 

Chuckz

Member
Here is the debate section of CARM https://forums.carm.org/#private-debates-pre-arranged.105

The "peanut gallery" cannot post there. If they do, the post gets deleted, and it iit happens over a time, there can be suspension of the offender

Without faith it is impossible to please God. God does some things we cannot understand or prove so arguing when you can't prove something makes people wise in their own conceits.

Proverbs 26:4 (KJV) says,​


Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
The very next verse, verse 5, says,

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

"No" is a wonderful word. I'm going to say, "no".​


John, how many bibles do you own? Some houses have 10 or more. I have a bunch.
Why do you deserve the gospel or many Bibles when people have none?
Why does the forum deserve argumentation when people are not getting the gospel?
I'm middle aged and the people who witnessed to me in my lifetime is a number I can count on one hand because Christians are not doing the job.

Instead of trying to get me to debate, get the gospel out instead.

God's going to ask at least two questions. By what basis are you saved and how many people did you bring?
Who did you bring? And my answer for not bringing more is what? "I didn't want to because I was too busy arguing."
 

Chuckz

Member
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Ignatius

Member
Thank you.


I get a reward for that.
If you believe Jesus is not God you're a heretic. The optimal word in that passage you posted is "falsely". Saying Jesus is not God is factually heretical therefore what I said isn't false.
 
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