Do you believe in keeping the Sabbath?
- Thread starter Runningman
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Runningman
Well-known member
Hi Mik,
Colossians 2:8 says,
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ.
So what I see about Colossians 2:16-17, in regards to God's 4th commandment literal seventh day Sabbath, is that it isn't a philosophy, empty deception, human tradition, or the spiritual forces of the world. The Sabbath is a commandment from God so this Colossians 2 passage isn't a rebuttal against the Sabbath. The teachings we should be following are those of Christ and he prophesied the Sabbath would exist well into future, even unto the present day, and beyond:
Matthew 24
20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.
But God considers the Seventh Day Sabbath more holy than all of the other days so we should go with what God thinks:
Genesis 2
3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.
Agreed! Let's love God and our neighbor as ourselves. Do that and you'll be keeping the 10 commandments, even the 4th commandment. Wanna know why? Because even though the seventh day is sanctified, if you are remembering to keep every day holy then you won't miss the Sabbath.
Why don't you want to be convinced to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, if I may ask? Are you a Christian?
I'm just informing whoever wants to talk about it.
Thanks God bless.
What you don't understand is that No Torah has been done away with but rather fulfilled by Yahusha Messiah. Those Jews who rejected Yahusha as their Messiah will be judged by The Torah of Moses.
So Torah still stands to accuse them if even one small stroke of Torah has been done away . with. But those who have Messiah as their Saviour:
Rom 8:
1 There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the torah of the Spirit of the life in Messiah יהושע has set me free from the torah of sin and of death.
3 For the Torah being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim, having sent His own Son in the likeness of flesh of sin, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the righteousness of the Torah should be completed in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Sabbath and the whole burden of keeping Shemittah cycle is Yahusha Messiah's and not our's as we cannot predict His exact time of His return.
We must also see Israel in Babylonian captivity could not keep either Sabbats or feast days. We are in dispersion living in various countries under God's sovereignty.
Anybody trying to keep a literal day Sabbath belongs to a beastly parallel Kingdom of Rev 13 and Mystery Babylon of Rev 17.
There are two parallel kingdoms of the beast -with 7 heads/10 horns and one looked like a lamb but spoke like dragon. It depicts both old and new covenant parallel kingdoms of Satan within the kingdom of God (flesh vs Spirit).
Paul speaks of OT Torah as 'elementary things of the world. If anyone has ears let him hear: Gal 4:3; Gal 4:9;
Col 2:8; Col 2:20; Heb 5:12
If you say Paul is speaking about traditions of men in Col 2:20, then you have a problem:
Col 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
The Messiah didn't come to set us free from the bondage of the traditions of men but rather accusation upon us by the rudiments of the world as set by our OT Tutors of the Torah. The teachers of Torah misinterpreted scriptures based on appearing of flesh while Torah was spiritual as it pointed to Messiah.
Runningman
Well-known member
Christ said to take his yoke upon ourselves because his yoke is easy and the burden is light, Matt 11:29-30. So if you think Christ is keeping the Sabbath for you, he basically said join him.
I had told someone else in the comment before this one that the Sabbath is not a philosophy, empty deception, human tradition, or the spiritual forces of the world.
Messiah did warn about doctrines of men and rebuked the scribes and the Pharisees for it. What do you think he would say to those who are doing the exact same thing?
Matt 15
3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ 5But you say that if anyone says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever you would have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6he need not honor his father or mother with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you:
8‘These people honor Me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from Me.
9They worship Me in vain;
they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”
Matt 5
19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
And I don't want to make this an overly long response, but it's pretty clear Jesus believed the 10 commandments were extremely important.
Mark 10
17As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 19You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not cheat others, honor your father and mother.’”
Hawkeye
Well-known member
The word “Torah” actually does not appear in scripture. The word you’re quoting in “Romans” is “Law”.
Torah is simply put…….the first five books of the Old Testament. The Law to which Paul refers in Romans is the Moab Covenant with all its restrictions, punishments and sacrifices which led Israel through the wilderness and was confirmed and ratified right before they entered the promised land…….Deuteronomy 29:9-15.
The Law is English translations of the Hebrew word 'Torah'. Paul was a Jew and was a learned man in Torah. You don't understand what you are saying.
I know that the first 5 books of the Bible are called Torah. Yahusha Messiah refers to all scriptures under Torah and the Prophets
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you, while I was still with you, that all things which are written in the Torah of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms, concerning me must be fulfilled.
Mat 11:13 “For all the prophets and the Torah prophesied till Yoḥanan.
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Messiah also said those who are burdened come to Him, He will give REST.
Acts 15:5 And some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees, rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Torah of Mosheh.”
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Why do you not understand that it you try to keep a literal day of Sabbath, you are bound to keep the whole Shemittah cycle of 7s? Sabbat doesn't stand all alone as Yahuah rested on the 7th day which is His eternal rest in which we are to enter. It's a never ending age. Man trying to enter rest on his own has a seal of 666 - ever trying and never finding rest. Sabbath was given under Moses as a sign leading to Messiah.
Besides, Israel under Babylonian captivity could never keep the literal day Sabbath. In their captivity and exile it was the land which was given to them was enjoying Sabbaths. IOW, The Land was not sown.
You are quoting what Messiah said out of context:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The Labour and heavy burden is of trying to keep The Torah.
His Yoke upon us is not trying to keep the Torah but meekness and humility.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
I actually do understand what I am saying. Torah does not appear in the Holy Scriptures anywhere. I understand that some folks call Torah the law…..but it isn’t. A better translation would be “a set of instructions” from parents to their children.
Your passage from Luke reads……The law of Moses…not Torah. The Law of Moses is defined as the Moab Covenant found described throughout the Book of Deuteronomy, mainly from chapter 29. In addition…..the law of Moses is not the Pentateuch (Latin) or the first five books of scripture…..which is Torah.
You should not interchange the word at your pleasure as this affects the sacred meaning of scripture.
Messiah also said those who are burdened come to Him, He will give REST.
Acts 15:5 And some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees, rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Torah of Mosheh.”
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Why do you not understand that it you try to keep a literal day of Sabbath, you are bound to keep the whole Shemittah cycle of 7s? Sabbat doesn't stand all alone as Yahuah rested on the 7th day which is His eternal rest in which we are to enter. It's a never ending age. Man trying to enter rest on his own has a seal of 666 - ever trying and never finding rest. Sabbath was given under Moses as a sign leading to Messiah.
Besides, Israel under Babylonian captivity could never keep the literal day Sabbath. In their captivity and exile it was the land which was given to them was enjoying Sabbaths. IOW, The Land was not sown.
You are quoting what Messiah said out of context:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The Labour and heavy burden is of trying to keep The Torah.
His Yoke upon us is not trying to keep the Torah but meekness and humility
Not at all! Apostles were serious about the Torah but you are in your own delusional world. Torah of Moses is the Torah from God given to Israel and not Moab.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
The law that Paul speaks of is not the Law of God (The Ten Commandments) from Horeb in Sinai…..Exodus 20. It is the Law of Moses with the Levite Priesthood, the animal sacrifices, the restrictions and the curses which Yahweh instructed Moses to place beside (not in) the Ark of the Covenant which held the Ten Commandments, Deuteronomy 31:24-26. This Law was codified, written and ratified on the plains of Moab forty years after Yahweh gave the Israelites His Ten Commandments….including the fourth.
You can pretend all you want regarding this subject but scripture disagrees with your ideas. The Israelites were given the Moab Covenant as they disobeyed Yahweh in the Golden Calf incident, Exodus 32 and Yahweh began this new Covenant with Moses, Exodus 34:10 and 34:27 which would guide Israel through the wilderness during the forty years and finally ratified on the plains of Moab before Moses died and the Israelites entered the promised land. Deuteronomy 33:4.
I know that! So 10 commandments has Sabbath in to it and so we need to keep the Sabbath right?
Do you understand between commands written on the tablets of stone and tablets of heart?
I know you are trying to act smart but will be defeated by the Spirit behind the scriptures.
You are still under the delusion that Israel under Babylonian captivity kept her Sabbaths.
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Runningman
Well-known member
The 10 Commandments aren’t the law of Moses. The 10 commandments aren’t the law the that kills. Paul has an entire discourse on this in Romans, but here’s a good starting point:
Can you identify what the obligation Paul is referring to below?
Romans 8
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Runningman
Well-known member
Below, when James is referring to "the law" he's referring to the 10 commandments. He doesn't list them all, but it isn't as if James is advocating for idolatry or stealing because he omitted them. The point is he is saying they are all applicable, but just gave a few examples to demonstrate which law he is talking about; I am grateful for that because sometimes Paul will say "the law' and those who don't follow the context will not understand what he's talking about. James referred to "all of it" [the 10 commandments]. People are all too happy to find the answer they believe validates their preferred theology then close the Bible and walk away. We see it all the time.
James 2
10Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
So now that keeping God's law has been proven to still be in effect, I am prepared to quote an abundance of verses that support keeping God's law, unless you have any objections with James, then back to Sabbath keeping.
It isn't burdensome. It's just "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." Quite simple for serious Christians who are consciously and deliberately resisting sin every day, though at times failing, anyway, but that is what grace is for. Praying every day, fellowship with God every day. Glory to God. There isn't any sort of strict anti-labor caveat attached to the Sabbath. Jesus was pretty clear that it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Isn't working your job so that you can provide for your family, keep your home, and car good?
Does God want you on your knees praying in the dead of winter, "Dear God, I didn't work on the Sabbath and my employer fired me. Now I am homeless, living on the street, and barely surviving. I am terribly cold and I may not survive this much longer. Is this what you had in mind for me?" Of course not.
The Sabbath was made for man. Don't pay attention to the way the Scribes and Pharisees were regulating the Sabbath in the New Testament. They were refuted by Jesus completely and we know who gets the final say on that matter. The Sabbath is for you to use because it was made for people.
Aside from all of that, it's stated the literal Sabbath remains in Hebrews 4 which is something most commentaries and Internet articles omit. One can't really follow what the Internet says without investigating for themselves what the truth is. As you may have noticed, some verses are quite hard to find in Christian circles unless you find them in the Bible yourself. That isn't an accident and it is an effort by to hide the truth.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
O.K. my friend…..I’ll shake the dust from my sandals…..
May Yahweh bless your home…..and all within.
Don't dust your sandals at your own cost.
The 10 commandments were given to Israel on the tablets of hardened hearts through the Mediatorship of Moses it's further defined in the Torah as Shemittah cycles. It's not a standalone command. Man wasn't made for Sabbath rest. Everybody won't find Sabbath rest. But The Sabbath was made for man (His elect). And The Adon of the Sabbath is Messiah. Keep the literal day of Sabbath but if you break one command you have broken Sabbath also as Israel broke:
2Chr 36:
20 And those who escaped from the sword he exiled to Baḇel, where they became servants to him and his sons until the reign of the reign of Persia,
21 in order to fill the word of יהוה by the mouth of Yirmeyahu, until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths. As long as she lay waste she kept Sabbath, until seventy years were completed.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:14
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13