Do you know of any religion that thinks less of Jesus than Judaism does?

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Bob, when I repent, God casts my sins into the sea and remembers them no more. Jesus is completely unnecessary.
You're going to bitterly regret that heresy. The ONLY REASON that God could "Cast your SINS into the SEA" in 2021 is that Jesus made a PERFECT SIN OFFERING (unlike the inferior temporary livestock offerings under the Old Covenant), and by FAITH in Jesus' offering, you can be cleansed. Otherwise, your SIN remains on you, and it won't go well for you at the judgement. The OLD Covenant has passed away, and we LIVE by the NEW Covenant in Jesus' BLOOD.

Since you "CLAIM" that Jesus is "Unnecessary", your SIN remains, and you are still in your SIN.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
You're going to bitterly regret that heresy. The ONLY REASON that God could "Cast your SINS into the SEA" in 2021 is that Jesus made a PERFECT SIN OFFERING (unlike the inferior temporary livestock offerings under the Old Covenant), and by FAITH in Jesus' offering, you can be cleansed. Otherwise, your SIN remains on you, and it won't go well for you at the judgement. The OLD Covenant has passed away, and we LIVE by the NEW Covenant in Jesus' BLOOD.

Since you "CLAIM" that Jesus is "Unnecessary", your SIN remains, and you are still in your SIN.
Sorry, but your New Testament was written hundreds and hundreds of years after the verse about God casing my sins into the sea. Jesus wasn't needed when the verse was written, and so he is not needed now.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Sorry, but your New Testament was written hundreds and hundreds of years after the verse about God casing my sins into the sea. Jesus wasn't needed when the verse was written, and so he is not needed now.
Context, context, context. Micah 7:19 is FUTURE TENSE looking toward the Gospel, when all the provisions in the OLD Covenant would come into actual reality. The plan of salvation through the SIN OFFERING of Jesus was set in place before the creation.
 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
First of all, the claim I made was that Christians consider Judaism to be a false religion.
Not "False" - obsolete, and no longer in effect. the OLD TESTAMENT was a "Shadow" (anti-type) of the REAL PROVISION - Jesus and HIM CRUCIFIED as a SIN Offering. The OLD Covenant has been fulfilled, and has passed away in favor of a BETTER Covenant in Jesus Blood.
Christian churches DO expect Jewish converts to ignore the sabbath, forget about the Holy Days, and eat non-kosher foods.
What we EXPECT is that Jews understand the Bible, and live accordingly. The simple fact is that in the presence of the REAL, the shadow can simply go away. Romans 14 is a good guidance - i.e if you CAN'T do it in FAITH, then DON'T DO IT.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Context, context, context. Micah 7:19 is FUTURE TENSE looking toward the Gospel, when all the provisions in the OLD Covenant would come into actual reality. The plan of salvation through the SIN OFFERING of Jesus was set in place before the creation.
Future tense as in WHEN WE REPENT. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Messiah.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah. Christians always try to come back to Isaiah 53, as if they win a point. In fact they couldn't be more wrong.
SO you say - without offering any explanation except the sterile: "you're WRONG and We're RIGHT". So who is Isa 53 speaking of??? Whose SOUL is the offering for SIN???
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
SO you say - without offering any explanation except the sterile: "you're WRONG and We're RIGHT". So who is Isa 53 speaking of??? Whose SOUL is the offering for SIN???
Bob, I tend to assume that most people in here are already aware of my positions, since I repeat them ad infinitum. If you aren't, I apologize for the assumption.

The suffering servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel. The metaphor of the servant is consistently used throughout Isaiah, who identifies it at a several points as Israel. For example, Isaiah 41:8 But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend.

Basically the idea is that the faithful obedient of Israel suffer on behalf of the whole of Israel. This is known as vicarious suffering. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the messiah.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Bob, I tend to assume that most people in here are already aware of my positions, since I repeat them ad infinitum. If you aren't, I apologize for the assumption.

The suffering servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel. The metaphor of the servant is consistently used throughout Isaiah, who identifies it at a several points as Israel. For example, Isaiah 41:8 But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend.

Basically the idea is that the faithful obedient of Israel suffer on behalf of the whole of Israel. This is known as vicarious suffering. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the messiah.
Creative -
Rejected.
 

Rachel Redux

Active member
Creative? It's not even my idea. I learned this from comparing different interpretations, and choosing the one that made the most sense.
Yeshua was the suffering servant. There are many scriptures that show he came to be an offering for his people, the Jews. Unfortunately, they're still rejecting him.
That's how we Gentiles got such an easy ride.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Holocaust denial is one form of antisemitism. You need to have a talk with your friend about the immorality of hating Jews.

While you are at it, look long and hard at why you yourself put "holocaust" in quotation marks. It seems to me that this is not just "for a friend."
 
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Bob Dobbalina

Active member
Most Christians love the Jewish people. It's people like you and a couple of others here that literally fuel antisemitic sentiment. You should think about that.
Christians who don’t recognize the Jewish people as YHWH’s chosen and revere them as such, are Christian by tradition; Yeshua has no place in their hearts or lives. In that light, all Christians love the Jewish people.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Christians who don’t recognize the Jewish people as YHWH’s chosen and revere them as such, are Christian by tradition; Yeshua has no place in their hearts or lives. In that light, all Christians love the Jewish people.
ROFL This form of circular reasoning is known as the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Look it up.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
chosen people

Isreal is an elect nation among the Nations
if an individual Jew is a person of God or not is another matter

Christians should love Jewish people, or at least try
I don't revere them, but I find them interesting as a People (gee, that sounds patronizing) and recognize their unique history and accomplishments
and affirm their Covenantal promises and prophetic future
some I like as individual persons

I think "Christians love Jewish" people as a blanket statement is overrated
or not always the reality
we are to love people but what that equates to, or historically has, is not defined
Christians are commanded to "love each other" as Jesus loved us
I guess we should try to love others for Him

it's hard enough for different Christians to get along, much less Christian and Jew
if they are Christian Jews we should have Jesus in common, and the Bible, etc.
if they skate we can maybe be buds and hang out and stuff

I'd assume Israel had a hard time not hating their Neighbors back in OT days Deut 23
 
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