Does anyone have a link to the text of the book "The Forgotten Trinity"?

NOTE: Does anyone have a link to the text of the book "The Forgotten Trinity" by James White? I would like to be able to cut and paste from the book.


I have often said intense study of the doctrine of the Trinity confuses people more than it helps them to understand the nature of Yahweh.

Well I was listening to James White's talk about his book...
Dr James White on "The Forgotten Trinity" (Part 1)
Dr James White on "The Forgotten Trinity" (Part 2)

And he basically starts with what I see as a perfect example of what I am talking about.


Starting at about 2:15 in the Part 1 video above James White says...

And we see this confusion if you just, in a Bible study in someone's home, if you listen to people praying. You will hear Trinitarian confusion in the prayers. "Oh our dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this wonderful day, we thank you for all you have given to us, we thank you for dying for us." The Father didn't die for us. It was the Son who died for us. And there will be confusion.


Since TRINITARIANS believe the three divine Persons have unique roles and you must ONLY pray to the Person who has that role.

For each role below, can you tell us which Person is assigned that role...
1) Hallowed be thy name.
2) Thy kingdom come.
3) Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
4) Give us day by day our daily bread.
5) And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
6) And lead us not into temptation;
7) but deliver us from evil.

In other words...
1) WHO should have their name hallowed?
2) WHO's kingdom should come?
3) WHO's will should be done?
4) WHO provides for our needs?
5) WHO forgives our sins?
6) WHO will lead us away from temptation?
7) WHO delivers us from evil?

Are ALL those the role of the Father?

For example, TRINITARIANS normally say it is the Holy Spirit who indwells and guides believers which seems to be what #6 and #7 are referring to.
 
NOTE: Does anyone have a link to the text of the book "The Forgotten Trinity" by James White? I would like to be able to cut and paste from the book.


I have often said intense study of the doctrine of the Trinity confuses people more than it helps them to understand the nature of Yahweh.

Well I was listening to James White's talk about his book...
Dr James White on "The Forgotten Trinity" (Part 1)
Dr James White on "The Forgotten Trinity" (Part 2)

And he basically starts with what I see as a perfect example of what I am talking about.


Starting at about 2:15 in the Part 1 video above James White says...

And we see this confusion if you just, in a Bible study in someone's home, if you listen to people praying. You will hear Trinitarian confusion in the prayers. "Oh our dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this wonderful day, we thank you for all you have given to us, we thank you for dying for us." The Father didn't die for us. It was the Son who died for us. And there will be confusion.


Since TRINITARIANS believe the three divine Persons have unique roles and you must ONLY pray to the Person who has that role.

For each role below, can you tell us which Person is assigned that role...
1) Hallowed be thy name.
2) Thy kingdom come.
3) Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
4) Give us day by day our daily bread.
5) And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
6) And lead us not into temptation;
7) but deliver us from evil.

In other words...
1) WHO should have their name hallowed?
2) WHO's kingdom should come?
3) WHO's will should be done?
4) WHO provides for our needs?
5) WHO forgives our sins?
6) WHO will lead us away from temptation?
7) WHO delivers us from evil?

Are ALL those the role of the Father?

For example, TRINITARIANS normally say it is the Holy Spirit who indwells and guides believers which seems to be what #6 and #7 are referring to.
That is so interesting. His church is super close to me, I might reach out and ask for clarification. Could just have mispoke.

What is in part 2?
 
That is so interesting. His church is super close to me, I might reach out and ask for clarification. Could just have mispoke.

What is in part 2?

I am just now going to listen to Part 2.

It is interesting...

I listened to his debate with David Bernard (a Oneness proponent) where James White says if you don't believe the Trinity then you are not saved.

Then in Part 1 above he says a majority of Trinitarians (over half) do not understand the Trinity properly.

I would like to ask him whether or not he thought those Trinitarians are saved.

In other words, does it just count if you claim to believe the Trinity, but don't know what it really means?
 
I am just now going to listen to Part 2.

It is interesting...

I listened to his debate with David Bernard (a Oneness proponent) where James White says if you don't believe the Trinity then you are not saved.

Then in Part 1 above he says a majority of Trinitarians (over half) do not understand the Trinity properly.

I would like to ask him whether or not he thought those Trinitarians are saved.

In other words, does it just count if you claim to believe the Trinity, but don't know what it really means?
The debate with David Bernard, was that the one on the radio where the audience could ask questions as well?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
NOTE: Does anyone have a link to the text of the book "The Forgotten Trinity" by James White? I would like to be able to cut and paste from the book.


I have often said intense study of the doctrine of the Trinity confuses people more than it helps them to understand the nature of Yahweh.

Well I was listening to James White's talk about his book...
Dr James White on "The Forgotten Trinity" (Part 1)
Dr James White on "The Forgotten Trinity" (Part 2)

And he basically starts with what I see as a perfect example of what I am talking about.


Starting at about 2:15 in the Part 1 video above James White says...

And we see this confusion if you just, in a Bible study in someone's home, if you listen to people praying. You will hear Trinitarian confusion in the prayers. "Oh our dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this wonderful day, we thank you for all you have given to us, we thank you for dying for us." The Father didn't die for us. It was the Son who died for us. And there will be confusion.


Since TRINITARIANS believe the three divine Persons have unique roles and you must ONLY pray to the Person who has that role.

For each role below, can you tell us which Person is assigned that role...
1) Hallowed be thy name.
2) Thy kingdom come.
3) Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
4) Give us day by day our daily bread.
5) And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
6) And lead us not into temptation;
7) but deliver us from evil.

In other words...
1) WHO should have their name hallowed?
2) WHO's kingdom should come?
3) WHO's will should be done?
4) WHO provides for our needs?
5) WHO forgives our sins?
6) WHO will lead us away from temptation?
7) WHO delivers us from evil?

Are ALL those the role of the Father?

For example, TRINITARIANS normally say it is the Holy Spirit who indwells and guides believers which seems to be what #6 and #7 are referring to.

White just makes it up as he goes along and refuses to ever confront his own contradictions. His only goal is to sell you his product.
 
The debate with David Bernard, was that the one on the radio where the audience could ask questions as well?

Yes.

There is where I realized that I have a big difference from the Oneness view.

David Bernard believes God manifest as the Son when Jesus was born to Mary.

Whereas I believe God manifest as the Son the instant he created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and became immanent in it.

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
That is so interesting.

YES INDEED!!!

I found some sections of James White's book "The Forgotten Trinity" online where James White quotes Melito of Sardis (AD 190-ish) in an attempt to show the antiquity of the doctrine of the Trinity.

But what he quoted did not seem Trinitarian to me. So I went and searched Melito's writings and found out that I actually believe very much like Melito! Obviously I use different language and some more modern words. But he is often labeled a Modalist just as I am. Even though I am not a Modalist by the standard definition (and neither would Melito).

For example...

In describing JESUS, Melito lists many names/titles of JESUS and includes this one...
The tongue of the Lord-His Holy Spirit. In the Psalm: "My tongue is a pen."

And...
The finger of the Lord-the Holy Spirit, by whose operation the tables of the law in Exodus are said to have been written; and in the Gospel: "If I by the finger of God cast out demons"

Those are some of his titles for JESUS! He does not seem to distinguish between Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

He explains it a little here...
He who in the law is the Law; among the priests, Chief Priest; among kings, the Ruler; among prophets, the Prophet; among the angels, Archangel; in the voice of the preacher, the Word; among spirits, the Spirit; in the Father, the Son; in God, God; King for ever and ever.


THANK YOU James White! I might not have come across those writings if it wasn't for you. :)

I am not sure why I hadn't read them before. It might just be that his writings are kept low key by Trinitarians (other than James White) since Melito comes across as a Modalist.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
YES INDEED!!!

I found some sections of James White's book "The Forgotten Trinity" online where James White quotes Melito of Sardis (AD 190-ish) in an attempt to show the antiquity of the doctrine of the Trinity.

But what he quoted did not seem Trinitarian to me. So I went and searched Melito's writings and found out that I actually believe very much like Melito! Obviously I use different language and some more modern words. But he is often labeled a Modalist just as I am. Even though I am not a Modalist by the standard definition (and neither would Melito).

For example...

In describing JESUS, Melito lists many names/titles of JESUS and includes this one...
The tongue of the Lord-His Holy Spirit. In the Psalm: "My tongue is a pen."

And...
The finger of the Lord-the Holy Spirit, by whose operation the tables of the law in Exodus are said to have been written; and in the Gospel: "If I by the finger of God cast out demons"

Those are some of his titles for JESUS! He does not seem to distinguish between Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

He explains it a little here...
He who in the law is the Law; among the priests, Chief Priest; among kings, the Ruler; among prophets, the Prophet; among the angels, Archangel; in the voice of the preacher, the Word; among spirits, the Spirit; in the Father, the Son; in God, God; King for ever and ever.


THANK YOU James White! I might not have come across those writings if it wasn't for you. :)

I am not sure why I hadn't read them before. It might just be that his writings are kept low key by Trinitarians (other than James White) since Melito comes across as a Modalist.

Trinitarians typically misrepresent what these earlier Christians actually believed. It's a "let us do evil that good may result" adventure for them.
 
YES INDEED!!!

I found some sections of James White's book "The Forgotten Trinity" online where James White quotes Melito of Sardis (AD 190-ish) in an attempt to show the antiquity of the doctrine of the Trinity.

But what he quoted did not seem Trinitarian to me. So I went and searched Melito's writings and found out that I actually believe very much like Melito! Obviously I use different language and some more modern words. But he is often labeled a Modalist just as I am. Even though I am not a Modalist by the standard definition (and neither would Melito).

For example...

In describing JESUS, Melito lists many names/titles of JESUS and includes this one...
The tongue of the Lord-His Holy Spirit. In the Psalm: "My tongue is a pen."

And...
The finger of the Lord-the Holy Spirit, by whose operation the tables of the law in Exodus are said to have been written; and in the Gospel: "If I by the finger of God cast out demons"

Those are some of his titles for JESUS! He does not seem to distinguish between Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

He explains it a little here...
He who in the law is the Law; among the priests, Chief Priest; among kings, the Ruler; among prophets, the Prophet; among the angels, Archangel; in the voice of the preacher, the Word; among spirits, the Spirit; in the Father, the Son; in God, God; King for ever and ever.


THANK YOU James White! I might not have come across those writings if it wasn't for you. :)

I am not sure why I hadn't read them before. It might just be that his writings are kept low key by Trinitarians (other than James White) since Melito comes across as a Modalist.
That is interesting considering 2 Corinthians 4:17,

17 Now the Lord[a] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Also, Acts 16:7, Romans 8:9, Philippians 1:19

That really reminds me of this website
 
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