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Does Calvinism Teach Soul Sleep
- Thread starter JDS
- Start date
The teaching of Calvinism is dawning on me now, after conversation with two knowledgeable Calvinists on this thread. It seems they make no distinctions between the body and the soul. I think they are teaching that that the body and the soul are the same thing.
I did not know this. I did not even suspect it. But understanding this shines a lot of light on their teaching on certain things.
Thank you civic and Reformedguy for helping me understand this.
I did not know this. I did not even suspect it. But understanding this shines a lot of light on their teaching on certain things.
Thank you civic and Reformedguy for helping me understand this.
The only problem is that in John 10 Jesus is not talking to you, or about you. There is a context.The provision isnt for all sinners, but for some, His Sheep, and He gives them ears to hear His voice Jn 10
brightfame52
Well-known member
If One is His Sheep Hes talking about them, for He died for them. If One isnt one of His Sheep He didnt die for them. So you sound confused already.The only problem is that in John 10 Jesus is not talking to you, or about you. There is a context.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Spiritually dead. No spiritual life in you. It is the Spirit that gives spiritual life.What does it have to do with? What does it mean to be spiritually dead? You may quote a verse or two to put me on the right track of understanding if you like.
G
guest1
Guest
NekrosWhy can't a sinner hear and understand the provision that God has made for sinners through Jesus Christ and believe it? You can give me the short answer if you like.
There are 42 books of the bible and 4000 years before John wrote anything, and that will explain who he is speaking of when he is speaking of sheep, and in those books they will never say it is you. However, God has some very specific things to say to you. God has written 13 books to you over a period of about 15 years beginning in AD 49 with the book of Galatians and ending with Philemon. Here ye him. Do not confuse God's metaphors. Find out what they are and believe them, keeping them in context.If One is His Sheep Hes talking about them, for He died for them. If One isnt one of His Sheep He didnt die for them. So you sound confused already.
G
guest1
Guest
That’s a new one. So 53/66 books are not written to believers .There are 42 books of the bible and 4000 years before John wrote anything, and that will explain who he is speaking of when he is speaking of sheep, and in those books they will never say it is you. However, God has some very specific things to say to you. God has written 13 books to you over a period of about 15 years beginning in AD 49 with the book of Galatians and ending with Philemon. Here ye him. Do not confuse God's metaphors. Find out what they are and believe them, keeping them in context.
Who would if ever thunk that in a million years but you ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Hes speaking about His Sheep, His ChurchThere are 42 books of the bible and 4000 years before John wrote anything, and that will explain who he is speaking of when he is speaking of sheep, and in those books they will never say it is you. However, God has some very specific things to say to you. God has written 13 books to you over a period of about 15 years beginning in AD 49 with the book of Galatians and ending with Philemon. Here ye him. Do not confuse God's metaphors. Find out what they are and believe them, keeping them in context.
I know you are trying to keep this light civic, and that is okay, but you have much material with which to correct me. You have 42 books that covers the history of 4000 years. Just go back and find a promise made to you that is not going to be accomplished through these people Israel. Bring it back to this forum and you will prove that I don’t know what I am talking about. Jesus said salvation is of the Jews. No one is referred to as a sheep except members of this one family and ignoring this or denying it is not going to help you understand the scriptures.That’s a new one. So 53/66 books are not written to believers .
Who would if ever thunk that in a million years but you ?
Gentiles are not sheep, civic. Sorry.
If salvation is through the Jews, would it not make logical sense to save the Jews first. And if Jesus said he came not to condemn the world but to save the world but the world was already getting saved before he came, what kind of sense would it make for him to enter history in person.
Think civic. The plan of God has logic in it.
Does Calvinism teach that a man has a soul and a body, or do you teach they are one and the same?Spiritually dead. No spiritual life in you. It is the Spirit that gives spiritual life.
G
guest1
Guest
Do you teach that man has a body and a spirit or do you teach they are one in the same ?Does Calvinism teach that a man has a soul and a body, or do you teach they are one and the same?
Civic, you seem to be in a perpetual attack mode lately, not that it bothers me, but you do not explain your doctrines, or even defend them. Above is a typical response from you.More dumb assumptions and I really see you have a serious issue with comprehension.
Do you think the will of man abides in the soul of man and the flesh resists it? I ask that because of some verses. Look at them here and tell me if they promote determinism and a dead man and other Calvinism peculiarities.
Mt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.
The spirit in this verse is with a small "s." This is the soul. It would be difficult to be willing without a will, right?
Ro 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not. Ro 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
1) To will is present with me
2) evil is present with me.
Yes, I teach a man has a body and a spirit and the spirit is the soul of man. The body is alive as long as the spirit is in it. The separation of the soul and body is called physical death. Read the obits in your county newspaper and you will see what I mean. This truth is accepted all over the world except in a reformed church and on these forums where the reformed hang out.Do you teach that man has a body and a spirit or do you teach they are one in the same ?
He did not have a church in John 10. The Father had many sheep scattered across the hills because they had no shepherd. The Father owned all the sheep but he would give all the sheep who would come to the son to him as a possession. The son was not looking for church members but for citizens of his kingdom. His ministry in the gospel accounts was to Israel and his preaching was "the kingdom of heaven is at hand, repent and believe the gospel," the good news of the kingdom.Hes speaking about His Sheep, His Church
So, you are wrong in your statement above.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Sure He had a Church, had one from the beginning of time Col 1:16-18He did not have a church in John 10. The Father had many sheep scattered across the hills because they had no shepherd. The Father owned all the sheep but he would give all the sheep who would come to the son to him as a possession. The son was not looking for church members but for citizens of his kingdom. His ministry in the gospel accounts was to Israel and his preaching was "the kingdom of heaven is at hand, repent and believe the gospel," the good news of the kingdom.
So, you are wrong in your statement above.
16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things [k]consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; [l]that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
How is this relevant to being spiritually dead or alive??Does Calvinism teach that a man has a soul and a body, or do you teach they are one and the same?
G
guest1
Guest
he/she is avoiding dealing with the biblical definition of nekros, hence the comments in his last post.How is this relevant to being spiritually dead or alive??
The picture of Israel in the wilderness, the firstborn son of God collectively, is the tabernacle, consisting of three parts. The outer court, representing the body, the inner court, representing the soul, and the holy of holies, representing the abode and presence of God and from whence light and shade emanated. This was not intended to be a permanent structure. The later temple would be the permanent structure.How is this relevant to being spiritually dead or alive??
So, in the NT, the typology is realized and goes from a sign to being real.
Paul, recognizing that his body was not his permanent abode, opined in this manner.
2 COR 5: For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
The new body that we will receive at the resurrection and translation of the body, the church of Jesus Christ, is a temple that God dwells in both individually and corporately. We as Christians are predestined for this eventuality.
Watch this. Corporate temple first.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Individual
1 Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
This is all prefigured in the OT scriptures. Here is a rule. ALL NT doctrines and truths are somewhere prefigured in type in the OT. This is the way God thinks and acts. The Bible is not just a story to read. It is a life to live.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Matt 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
This is how it is relevant and why the natural man thinks the spiritual truths and deep things of God are foolishness. He does not know the ways of God and can not be taught them, except he repent, something you say the natural man can not do because God will not allow it.
I expect what I have taught you here in this brief post will not be understandable to you and will cause you to laugh..
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I am a he and you know it because I have told you before. I suspect you are a he as well.he/she is avoiding dealing with the biblical definition of nekros, hence the comments in his last post.
I don't know what nekros means because I speak English and I surely am not as wise as you. I do know how death is defined in the English scriptures, but if you have other worldly wisdom, it is ok with me. I accept that I will never be on your level.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
You are correct. Lol Because it's laughable. Again, how is this relevant to being spiritually alive or dead?The picture of Israel in the wilderness, the firstborn son of God collectively, is the tabernacle, consisting of three parts. The outer court, representing the body, the inner court, representing the soul, and the holy of holies, representing the abode and presence of God and from whence light and shade emanated. This was not intended to be a permanent structure. The later temple would be the permanent structure.
So, in the NT, the typology is realized and goes from a sign to being real.
Paul, recognizing that his body was not his permanent abode, opined in this manner.
2 COR 5: For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
The new body that we will receive at the resurrection and translation of the body, the church of Jesus Christ, is a temple that God dwells in both individually and corporately. We as Christians are predestined for this eventuality.
Watch this. Corporate temple first.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Individual
1 Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
This is all prefigured in the OT scriptures. Here is a rule. ALL NT doctrines and truths are somewhere prefigured in type in the OT. This is the way God thinks and acts. The Bible is not just a story to read. It is a life to live.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Matt 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
This is how it is relevant and why the natural man thinks the spiritual truths and deep things of God are foolishness. He does not know the ways of God and can not be taught them, except he repent, something you say the natural man can not do because God will not allow it.
I expect what I have taught you here in this brief post will not be understandable to you and will cause you to laugh..