Does Childhood Religiosity Delay Death?

[Algor]

Then what's your excuse for not following Jesus?

What's your excuse for lying about people?

 

[SteveB]

Ummm...wrong. A lie requires intent to deceive. If you say (or 'promote') something that is not objectively true that you believe is objectively true, that is not a lie; it is an error.

So, you believing errors because you don't like the truth....

What does this become?

 

[SteveB]

What's your excuse for lying about people?

I'm not.
I understand that you don't like what I say, and need to believe it's a lie, but I'm not lying.

 

[Algor]

I'm not.

You posted obviously untrue things. You were called on it, and doubled down., and posted more untrue things.

This isn't just "opinion", SteveB, and all your excuses don't change anything.

 

[SteveB]

You posted obviously untrue things. You were called on it, and doubled down., and posted more untrue things.

This isn't just "opinion", SteveB, and all your excuses don't change anything.

As I've stated several times before, there are many things that you believe are obviously untrue, and yet have no problem whatsoever with believing what you claim are "true" things.

So, you'll have to excuse me for not taking this seriously.... coming from you, or other atheists here.

 

[Algor]

As I've stated several times before,

Don’t care. You demonstrably lie, and that’s that. Make all the excuses you like.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Don’t care. You demonstrably lie, and that’s that. Make all the excuses you like.

I've never known Steve to lie. Can you point some out?

 

[Algor]

I've never known Steve to lie. Can you point some out?

Sure.

The love of God is on display through Jesus Christ

Sure. Start with: do dead people come back to life? With Christianity, I think that's the wrong place to start. If the dead person in question is purported to be God Incarnate, rising from the dead is not as hard to rationally swallow as "was this Man God Incarnate?" At least that's where I...

forums.carm.org

In no way did I claim that I "could take 10 billion people and create a new cosmos in 9 hours."

Here:

Does Childhood Religiosity Delay Death?

It's not that my reading comprehension is the problem. On the evidence, it is. It's that I see from a perspective that you don't see. Well, you demonstrably tell whoppers, so maybe that's an issue too, but it isn't mine.

forums.carm.org

In no way have I claimed that "Paul perverted the gospel of Jesus"

And here is everything I've ever said about St Paul on the board:

Search results for query: paul

I know I haven't claimed that Paul "perverted the gospel". It is not a claim I would make. I'm sure I could find more hyperbolic strawmanning on his part, but I have always figured that was just part of whatever it is that goes on in his head .He clearly can't see the problem so I have never really held him accountable, and I don't really care too much. This, however, is not that. This is simple misrepresentation.

 

[Howie]

From:
Journal of Religion and Health volume 60 , pages 420–443 (2021)

Abstract
This study explores the potential long-term health effects of religiosity in the childhood home. Analyses use retrospective childhood data from the MIDUS survey linked to National Death Index records from 1995 to 2014. Findings from Cox proportional hazard models suggest that children brought up in highly religious households have a higher risk of mortality than those socialized in more moderately religious households, this despite such individuals having better overall health profiles. The surprising link between high childhood religiosity and mortality was confined to those who downgraded their religiosity. Those who intensified from moderate to high religiosity, in fact, seemed to be most protected. We call for future research to more clearly specify the intervening mechanisms linking childhood religion with adult health and mortality over the life course.

Reasonable study, with a reasonable sample size after a response rate of >60% to survey.

From the discussion "A seeming paradox makes our central finding all the more surprising: People raised in highly religious homes were at an increased mortality risk despite fitting the profile of overall health and well-being. Indeed, ancillary analyses showed this group to have a lower risk of smoking and heavy drinking, lower depression scores, and lower risk of several major illnesses relative to those raised in moderately or non-religious homes. People raised to be highly religious also visited a doctor with more regularity and reported higher self-confidence and optimism than peers raised in less religious homes.

The surprising mortality penalty associated with high childhood religiosity, however, had an important contingency: It was confined to those who downgraded their religiosity and not observed among those who remained highly religious over time. Growing up in the highest quantile of religiosity necessarily means that one has the farthest possible range of religious decline (i.e., a ceiling effect), and prior research documents that any form of drop-off is most common among those raised most devout . This pattern was also found in our data. Indeed, for those with highly religious childhoods, 44% reported a decrease in religious importance in adulthood, compared with only 26% of individuals raised in moderately religious homes. Experiencing the downward path from a religious ceiling can carry negative health implications ). One potential pathway for this process is the social support linked to church attendance and other collective expressions of religiosity . That is, a decrease in religiosity over time may portend the loss of important social ties that eventually exact a toll on health. Another potential pathway from declining religiosity to health is the loss of a totalizing worldview to make sense of and effectively address life problems. Losing religion could wipe away some of the cognitive resources that people once depended on for dealing with stress."

TLDR: raising children with high levels of religiosity is associated with an increase in their age adjusted mortality if their religiosity declines as adults.

"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and pleading with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus."​

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, think about these things. As for the things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you. Philippians 4:6-9.​

​

Upbringing was not particularly religious. At age 10, my divorced mom married a Roman Catholic man. Brother and I went to Catholic School for 3 years. Family moved to another community, and "religiosity" ended. Moving forward to age 47, after about 35 years out of church, salvation arrived for me, and my wife, an atheist.

To me, the passage of scripture above is one of the most lovely encouragements in scripture. "The peace of God which surpasses all understanding ... is a phrase I think of always when circumstances get tough and mean.

I have that peace. I do not worry, as Paul directs: I stop often during each day to give thanks to God for all He has given me, including the trials, the illnesses, the suffering, the heartache, the heartbreak, the irtitation that is The Pixie because I know God CAUSES ALL THINGS for good to those who love Him (Rom 8:28).

Keeping it short, I get why that study found what it did about those who love God.

And, I didn't need a study to tell me ... 😁

 

[Algor]

"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and pleading with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus."​

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, think about these things. As for the things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you. Philippians 4:6-9.​

​

Upbringing was not particularly religious. At age 10, my divorced mom married a Roman Catholic man. Brother and I went to Catholic School for 3 years. Family moved to another community, and "religiosity" ended. Moving forward to age 47, after about 35 years out of church, salvation arrived for me, and my wife, an atheist.

To me, the passage of scripture above is one of the most lovely encouragements in scripture. "The peace of God which surpasses all understanding ... is a phrase I think of always when circumstances get tough and mean.

I have that peace. I do not worry, as Paul directs: I stop often during each day to give thanks to God for all He has given me, including the trials, the illnesses, the suffering, the heartache, the heartbreak, the irtitation that is The Pixie because I know God CAUSES ALL THINGS for good to those who love Him (Rom 8:28).

Keeping it short, I get why that study found what it did about those who love God.

And, I didn't need science to tell me ... 😁

Well, count yourself lucky. Regardless what I think of the facts of the universe, if you can find a place in at peace, good on you. It is no simple task, from what I can see.

 

[Howie]

Well, count yourself lucky. Regardless what I think of the facts of the universe, if you can find a place in at peace, good on you. It is no simple task, from what I can see.

Couldn't find the peace before I believed, and "Luck" should not be a part of a Christians vocabulary. God is sovereign. There are no rogue molecules in existence. 🙂

 

[Algor]

Sure.

The love of God is on display through Jesus Christ

Sure. Start with: do dead people come back to life? With Christianity, I think that's the wrong place to start. If the dead person in question is purported to be God Incarnate, rising from the dead is not as hard to rationally swallow as "was this Man God Incarnate?" At least that's where I...

forums.carm.org

In no way did I claim that I "could take 10 billion people and create a new cosmos in 9 hours."

Here:

Does Childhood Religiosity Delay Death?

It's not that my reading comprehension is the problem. On the evidence, it is. It's that I see from a perspective that you don't see. Well, you demonstrably tell whoppers, so maybe that's an issue too, but it isn't mine.

forums.carm.org

In no way have I claimed that "Paul perverted the gospel of Jesus"

And here is everything I've ever said about St Paul on the board:

Search results for query: paul

I know I haven't claimed that Paul "perverted the gospel". It is not a claim I would make. I'm sure I could find more hyperbolic strawmanning on his part, but I have always figured that was just part of whatever it is that goes on in his head .He clearly can't see the problem so I have never really held him accountable, and I don't really care too much. This, however, is not that. This is simple misrepresentation.

Sorry Stiggy. Wrong link for the first one:

Persuade Us to atheism ...

Do you have any evidence that JFK was clinically dead, given that his heart was still functioning when Oswald shot him the head? IOW you have no evidence that Jesus was clinically dead when Joseph and Nicodemus resuscitated him with the help of 30 kg of healing agents (John 19:39-40).

forums.carm.org

and

Persuade Us to atheism ...

OK You are telling whoppers here. It's not clear why. Hope you get better soon. No need to tell whoppers. Algor- 10,000 lifetimes is not a long time: the world contains roughly 10 billion people, so in modern terms 10000 lifetimesis about 9 hours of collective effort. Steve- Go for it...

forums.carm.org

My mistake. Not sure why that other link is there.

In no way did I claim that I "could take 10 billion people and create a new cosmos in 9 hours."
That's a bizarre claim and untrue.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Sure.

The love of God is on display through Jesus Christ

Sure. Start with: do dead people come back to life? With Christianity, I think that's the wrong place to start. If the dead person in question is purported to be God Incarnate, rising from the dead is not as hard to rationally swallow as "was this Man God Incarnate?" At least that's where I...

forums.carm.org

That link is to a conversation between you and Gus. Can you copy/paste a quote of Steve saying you claimed you could take 10 billion people and........

In no way have I claimed that "Paul perverted the gospel of Jesus"

Maybe he was mistaken. Others have said that.

 

[Algor]

That link is to a conversation between you and Gus. Can you copy/paste a quote of Steve saying you claimed you could take 10 billion people and........

Not sure how I did that. Weird. Here:

https://forums.carm.org/threads/persuade-us-to-atheism.4828/page-21#post-322716 and again here:

Persuade Us to atheism ...

OK You are telling whoppers here. It's not clear why. Hope you get better soon. No need to tell whoppers. Algor- 10,000 lifetimes is not a long time: the world contains roughly 10 billion people, so in modern terms 10000 lifetimesis about 9 hours of collective effort. Steve- Go for it...

forums.carm.org

"You were pretty clear that you could take 10 billion people and have a new cosmos in 9 hours"

Maybe he was mistaken. Others have said that.

Not me. When one is investigating errors in an academic paper, or in a report, and one finds that all the errors go in one direction and there's never an acknowledgement of error once pointed out, people don't say "The author is mistaken: everyone has biases." People say "That's fraud."

This is a discussion board, so it's trivial and the standards are very casual, but at some point, there's an issue with honesty.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

"You were pretty clear that you could take 10 billion people and have a new cosmos in 9 hours"

Sarcasm. I'm pretty sure he didn't ACTUALLY think you thought you could take 10 billion people and have a new cosmos in 9 hours. Hyperbolic sarcasm to contrast your power with God's.

Not me. When one is investigating errors in an academic paper, or in a report, and one finds that all the errors go in one direction and there's never an acknowledgement of error once pointed out, people don't say "The author is mistaken: everyone has biases." People say "That's fraud."

This is a discussion board, so it's trivial and the standards are very casual, but at some point, there's an issue with honesty.

If he thought you were one of those with that opinion about Paul, it wasn't a lie, just a mistake.

 

[Algor]

Sarcasm. I'm pretty sure he didn't ACTUALLY think you thought you could take 10 billion people and have a new cosmos in 9 hours. Hyperbolic sarcasm to contrast your power with God's.

I'm pretty sure he didn't think I said that too.

If he thought you were one of those with that opinion about Paul, it wasn't a lie, just a mistake.

Which naturally one corrects upon it being pointed out. If all the mistakes go in one direction, and there is no attempt to correct, this is no longer simple error. It's a bad-faith exchange. I think I had an obligation to let SteveB know what I think, though I doubt he will care, and I'm not going to spend any more time on it.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

So, you believing errors because you don't like the truth....

And here's Steve inventing things again. Why do you constantly do this? Nothing I said could remotely be interpreted as what you said.

Why do you ignore what people say and make things up?

What does this become?

Your repeated falsehoods? I've no idea. That's your problem.

 

[ferengi]

And here's Steve inventing things again.

Like you invented uncaused effects?

 

[SteveB]

And here's Steve inventing things again. Why do you constantly do this? Nothing I said could remotely be interpreted as what you said.

Then change the manner you use to explain your points.
Because I'm using what you say, and the world view I have to interpret what you say.
Since I don't read minds, it's not like I can see what you're actually thinking.

Why do you ignore what people say and make things up?

I'm not making things up at all.
I use the words you post, and the world view I have to understand what you say, and then state it back to you.

Your repeated falsehoods? I've no idea. That's your problem.

Apparently it's your problem because you keep trying to accuse me of changing what you claim to be saying. And contrary to your opinion, I'm not changing it at all.

 

[Whatsisface]

I'm not making things up at all.
I use the words you post, and the world view I have to understand what you say, and then state it back to you.

Yeah, you take the plain meaning given to you and change it beyond recognition.