Does God have eyes?

[John Milton]

Jesus had previously taught Thomas that to see him was also to see the Father.

Yes. He believed in God; he didn't believe in Jesus's relationship to the Father. John 14:8-9 "Philip said to him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.' 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?"

Don't you believe Jesus?

Is Jesus claiming that he is the Father in verse 9 above or is he implying that Thomas knows the Father but he does know him (Jesus)? (I underlined it for you.)

Don't you believe Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28?

Sure he did. But that isn't the focus of Thomas's statement.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Yes. He believed in God; he didn't believe in Jesus's relationship to the Father. John 14:8-9 "Philip said to him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.' 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?"

Is Jesus claiming that he is the Father in verse 9 above or is he implying that Thomas knows the Father but he does know him (Jesus)? (I underlined it for you.)

Sure he did.

So you agree that Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28, right?

But that isn't the focus of Thomas's statement.

And you got your information from WHERE? Your personal desires?

 

[Oseas]

You've overstayed your welcome. Any insane person can quote the bible. Why don't you get lost? You are not sufficiently educated to take part in any discussion here. My spirit is perfectly peaceful. You're the raving lunatic here. In fact I would rate you as a prophet of ba'al.

The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity, so is your tongue among your members and is set by the fire of hell, it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

 

[John Milton]

So you agree that Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28, right?

You can't see Jesus without seeing the Father, but seeing the Father isn't what is in view in either passage or else Thomas looking at Jesus in John 14 is the same as looking at him in John 20. What is in view in both passages is Thomas's belief.

And you got your information from WHERE? Your personal desires?

From the text where Thomas was seeing the same Jesus but having two different understandings about who he was.

 

[John Milton]

So you agree that Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28, right?

And you got your information from WHERE? Your personal desires?

Are you going to answer the question I asked you about 14:9?

 

[Our Lord's God]

You can't see Jesus without seeing the Father, but seeing the Father isn't what is in view in either passage or else Thomas looking at Jesus in John 14 is the same as looking at him in John 20. What is in view in both passages is Thomas's belief.

It seems that it has not yet dawned on you that Thomas would not believe until he had SEEN him.

"He who has SEEN me has SEEN the Father."

"My Lord and my God."

Yes, Thomas really did believe it was Jesus standing before him alive and well.

Jesus was the only one you could see and be seeing the Father.

From the text where Thomas was seeing the same Jesus but having two different understandings about who he was.

I see. Your solution to everything is to just make it up as you go along and expect others to participate in the madness.

 

[Oseas]

No, not even "God is a Spirit."

Try again.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?
My Lord JESUS said: John 4:v.24 -God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.

But the spirit of darkness , the demons , deny the Word of GOD. By the way, around two thousand years ago the spirits of demons of of the MAN gergesene said to JESUS: "art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
but NOW, even NOW, from NOW on, the demons will be tormented before the Light of the Word of GOD.

 

[John Milton]

It seems that it has not yet dawned on you that Thomas would not believe until he had SEEN him.

"He who has SEEN me has SEEN the Father."

Surely you're not serious. Thomas had seen Jesus several times before Jn. 20. He was seeing Jesus while he was speaking to him in John 14.

"My Lord and my God."

Yes, Thomas really did believe it was Jesus standing before him alive and well.

Jesus was the only one you could see and be seeing the Father.

And he saw him before resurrection, too. Jesus wasn't talking about Thomas "seeing" him. He specifically asked Thomas if he "knew" him. Do you understand the difference?

Your solution to everything is to just make it up as you go along and expect others to participate in the madness.

You mean by my answering the questions you've asked me in good faith? I guess you suppose you are the only one entitled to ask questions. I dispatched your feeble attempt at a "gotcha," and you won't even answer the question that I have asked you to help me understand your position. Is your position so lost that you have already given up?

 

[Our Lord's God]

Surely you're not serious. Thomas had seen Jesus several times before Jn. 20. He was seeing Jesus while he was speaking to him in John 14.

And that is why Thomas knew the Father and had seen the Father in John 14.

And he saw him before resurrection, too. Jesus wasn't talking about Thomas "seeing" him. He specifically asked Thomas if he "knew" him. Do you understand the difference?

No he didn't. He said if Thomas had known him then Thomas had also known the Father. Do you not understand the difference?

You mean by my answering the questions you've asked me in good faith? I guess you suppose you are the only one entitled to ask questions. I dispatched your feeble attempt at a "gotcha," and you won't even answer the question that I have asked you to help me understand your position. Is your position so lost that you have already given up?

My "position" is that Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28 because he saw Jesus and he is declaring it is him by declaring he sees the Father as well.

In John 14, Thomas had known and seen the Father.

Jesus then died and was dead. Thomas wouldn't believe Jesus had risen until he had seen him for himself.

When he finally seen Jesus, he confessed it was that man who taught Thomas that seeing him was seeing the Father.

At John 20:28, Thomas saw the Father and he knew he was seeing the Father because he knew it was Jesus he was seeing.

Thomas was seeing Jesus his Lord and seeing his Lord's God and believing in Jesus and his Lord's God.

"He who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me." - Jesus

But you do not believe.

 

[Oseas]

God the Father is not even the speaker at Hebrews 1:8.

To understand what GOD the Father says by His Word-the Word is GOD-, first of all it is necessary to have the Spirit of GOD.

 

[Our Lord's God]

To understand what GOD the Father says by His Word-the Word is GOD-, first of all it is necessary to have the Spirit of GOD.

Well then, it will be necessary for me to conclude that you do not have the Spirit of God.

God the Father is not even the speaker at Hebrews 1:8.

 

[Oseas]

No it is not written that God is the speaker at Hebrews 1:8.
Apparently though, you aren't interested in the facts.

What you are saying means nothing, your spirit is surreptitiously being evasive, and cynic, and just perpetrating a satanic trap as always it does.

 

[John Milton]

And that is why Thomas knew the Father and had seen the Father in John 14.

You can't know the Father if you don't know Jesus.

No he didn't.

Yes, he did.
"τοσούτῳ χρόνῳ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με, Φίλιππε;" "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?"

He said if Thomas had known him then Thomas had also known the Father. Do you not understand the difference?

Apparently, you don't realize that instead of discussing "seeing" as you were before you are now discussing "knowing" which you just denied above.

My "position" is that Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28 because he saw Jesus and he is declaring it is him by declaring he sees the Father as well.

He saw the Father at John 14, whether he understood that he had or not.

In John 14, Thomas had known and seen the Father.

Now you are contradicting yourself.

Jesus then died and was dead. Thomas wouldn't believe Jesus had risen until he had seen him for himself.

When he finally seen Jesus, he confessed it was that man who taught Thomas that seeing him was seeing the Father.

He didn't mention anything about a "man" in his remarks.

At John 20:28, Thomas saw the Father and he knew he was seeing the Father because he knew it was Jesus he was seeing.

Thomas was seeing Jesus his Lord and seeing his Lord's God and believing in Jesus and his Lord's God.

That's not at all what the text says. Either literally or as a paraphrase.

"He who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me." - Jesus

Absolutely. When will you catch on?

 

[Oseas]

therefore Jesus is not God...
How does this nullify that Jesus is not God?

You spirit, by the way, the same spirit of Genesis 3, denys what GOD said of His Son JESUS Christ, it's because your soul was dragged by him, I mean you were dragged by the red Dragon, this is the name of Devil in this current time of Apocalypse.

 

[Our Lord's God]

What you are saying means nothing, your spirit is surreptitiously being evasive, and cynic, and just perpetrating a satanic trap as always it does.

Is this what you always do to yourself when people present you with facts?

 

[Oseas]

Well then, it will be necessary for me to conclude that you do not have the Spirit of God.
God the Father is not even the speaker at Hebrews 1:8.

What you are saying means nothing, your spirit is surreptitiously being evasive, and cynic, and just perpetrating a satanic trap as always Satan does.

 

[Our Lord's God]

You can't know the Father if you don't know Jesus.

Yes, he did.
"τοσούτῳ χρόνῳ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με, Φίλιππε;" "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?"

How do you manage to confuse yourself like this? We were talking about Thomas not Philip.

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me. 7 If you know me, you know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him.

Apparently, you don't realize that instead of discussing "seeing" as you were before you are now discussing "knowing" which you just denied above.You

You sure know how to confuse yourself. Do you do this intentionally?

v. 7 If you know me, you know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him.

v.9 He who has seen me has seen the Father.

He saw the Father at John 14, whether he understood that he had or not.

Yes he did.

Now you are contradicting yourself.

No I'm not.

He didn't mention anything about a "man" in his remarks.

How obtuse can you be? The entire account is about a MAN who bodily rose from the dead.

That's not at all what the text says. Either literally or as a paraphrase.

Babble away if you must. It won't help you escape the facts,

Absolutely. When will you catch on?

Yes when will you?

Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28. How can you say "Show us the Father."

 

[Our Lord's God]

What you are saying means nothing, your spirit is surreptitiously being evasive, and cynic, and just perpetrating a satanic trap as always Satan does.

The confirmation bias method eh?

 

[John Milton]

How do you manage to confuse yourself like this? We were talking about Thomas not Philip.
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me. 7 If you know me, you know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him.




You sure know how to confuse yourself. Do you do this intentionally?

v. 7 If you know me, you know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him.

v.9 He who has seen me has seen the Father.
No I'm not.

I apologize for the mix-up. I conflated Thomas and Philip. The point that I was trying to make was that Thomas had seen the Father and had known the Father, but even though he had seen Jesus he still didn't believe in Jesus.

How obtuse can you be? The entire account is about a MAN who bodily rose from the dead.

Thomas called Jesus "God" not "man". You are ducking this major point.

Babble away if you must. It won't help you escape the facts,

Nothing about your remarks there was factual.

Thomas saw the Father at John 20:28. How can you say "Show us the Father."

The text affirms, as I have maintained all along, that Thomas had already seen the Father. John 14:7 "If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.” Neither of the passages discuss Thomas's disbelief in God. He constantly believed in God. The growth that Thomas experienced from 14 to 20 is that he finally recognized who Jesus is.

 

[cjab]

The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity, so is your tongue among your members and is set by the fire of hell, it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

You are a child of the devil, an imp of satan. Likely, you are mentally disturbed, likely you are unemployed. Shocking that you should be allowed to infest this forum all day to spew out your satanic garbage.