Does God love everyone ?

Predestined

Well-known member
LOL .....

Might want to check your facts.

The marching band refused to yied.

I may have got hit by a tuba .....

Do you think the cast guy will be ok?

Leave me out of the Cast Guy Debacle, That's between you and him.
You'll be okay say three Hail Mary's and post me in the morning.
 
G

guest1

Guest
There's nothing to "refute".
All Tom, Chalcedon, and Leatherneck have done is quote Scripture, and haven't provided an IOTA of exegesis which proves any problem with Calvinism.

Since Calvinists believe ALL Scripture, there is nothing to "refute".

Further, between David and I, the anti-Calvinist interpretation of 1 Pet. 3:9 has been refuted at least 20 times, yet Chalcedon continues to quote it.

All you do is waste CARM resources posting the same refuted "proof-texts" over and over again. Maybe you and the other anti-Calvinists have nothing better to do with your lives than repeat the same refuted arguments over and over, but Calvinists have a duty to God to use our time wisely.

Have a nice day.

what on earth are you talking about ?

1 Peter 3:9
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.


why are you wasting our time and resources ?

please quote all these 20 times I quoted it and you refuted it rofl, this is my first time quoting the verse in response to your post.
 

Howie

Well-known member
Now back to the point of the OP which has yet to be refuted .

Yes God indeed loves everyone as we read in Scripture below.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind ofGod our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

hope this helps !!
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant ... 1 Sam 15:2-3.

Please explain to me the type of love God is exhibiting toward the Amalekites in the utter destruction of every Amalekite man, woman, child and infant in the above passage.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
What Dictionary Does that definition come from? Mines a little different:

(the world)​

the earth, together with all of its countries, peoples, and natural features

Actually Pharaoh was chosen for honor. He was chosen to honor God. We well know that God often works to demonstrate things, systems, false gods, and people are unworthy of our trust; for they shall all fail. To wit, God’s compassion makes it known to all who will heed that he is the one true God who is alone worthy of our trust and devotion. His mighty acts in Egypt were acts of compassionate evangelization.

It demonstrated God’s sovereignty by overpowering Pharaoh who was believed to be the sovereign. The news of this work of God spread to pagans in distant places like Jericho (Josh 2:8–14) and Gibeon (Josh 9:9). It spread to people like the prostitute Rahab in Canaan and “all the inhabitants of the land” (Josh 2:9). The message was clearly understood by Rahab because she believed and was saved.

“Then Rahab declared her faith in Israel’s God: For the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. Responding to the word she had received about the mighty working of God, Rahab believed, trusting in His power and mercy. And that faith saved her.”

Does God Love All or Some? Comparing Biblical Extensivism and Calvinism’s Exclusivism Ronnie W. Rogers
That's okay. I'm wondering who ripped the pages out of your Bible.

Psalm 5
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
That's okay. I'm wondering who ripped the pages out of your Bible.

Psalm 5
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Janice, good job of stating the truth to those who are convinced to misrepresent what scripture teaches. I was shocked to see this turn of events. It broke my heart to see it. All we can do is pray for them. In the case of one of them, a complete turnabout of beliefs makes me wonder if a change in cognition abilities might be at play. Still a reason to pray.

God Speed Sister.❤️
 
G

guest1

Guest
Janice, good job of stating the truth to those who are convinced to misrepresent what scripture teaches. I was shocked to see this turn of events. It broke my heart to see it. All we can do is pray for them. In the case of one of them, a complete turnabout of beliefs makes me wonder if a change in cognition abilities might be at play. Still a reason to pray.

God Speed Sister.❤️
Yes repentance is cognitive thanks for the affirmation. A change of mind . I will pray you have a change of mind as well .

next
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
This is a contradictory critique.

He criticizes calvinists for the exact same idea that arminians hold to.

Namely that god who can save all but chooses not to.

arminians believe this exact same thing.
No one that knows scripture would ever say God choose some for hell. The truth is they had the opportunity to repent and believe , and be saved provided by Jesus which they rejected.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
No one that knows scripture would ever say God choose some for hell. The truth is they had the opportunity to repent and believe , and be saved provided by Jesus which they rejected.
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Return to the Lord. Say to Him, “Take away all iniquity; Receive us graciously." Hosea 14:2
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
He loved them by giving them the opportunity to believe in and trust Jesus which they rejected.
The Bible knows nothing of your statement. I'm not sure, but I don't believe the Bible ever calls anyone to an opportunity. Can you point me to the chapter and verse where salvation is described as an opportunity.

Instead it says that no one can come unless the Fathers chooses them. No opportunity mentioned.

Acts 13:48
King James Version

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Not a word about an opportunity.

And then there is this:

John 6:44
King James Version

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Not a word about an opportunity.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
In the past two decades have witnessed a resurgence of Calvinism among American evangelicals. This resurgence is especially evident within the Southern Baptist Convention, which historically has been and still is divided over the issue. However, it has also made its presence felt in Pentecostal denominations such as the Assemblies of God, which do not have historic ties to Calvinism.


By Calvinism, I mean specifically the doctrine of salvation that is commonly explained by means of the acronym, TULIP:


  • T = Total depravity
  • U = Unconditional election
  • L = Limited atonement
  • I = Irresistible grace
  • P = Perseverance of the saints

In the seventeenth century, Jacob Arminius—a Dutch Reformed theologian—set forth a different understanding of salvation that has been called Arminianism after him. It is sometimes explained by means of the acronym, FACTS:


  • F = Freed by grace to believe
  • A = Atonement for all
  • C = Conditional election
  • T = Total depravity
  • S = Security in Christ

In Does God Love Everyone? Jerry L. Walls—an evangelical philosopher—outlines an argument against Calvinism and for Arminianism. Its strength is that it focuses on the central point of the disagreement between them. Walls writes:


The deepest issue that divides Arminians and Calvinists is not the sovereignty of God, predestination, or the authority of the Bible. The deepest difference pertains to how we understand the character of God. Is God good in the sense that he deeply and sincerely loves all people?


According to Walls, the answer of Arminianism is “Yes.” The answer of Calvinism is “No.” As Calvinist author Arthur W. Pink put it in The Sovereignty of God: “When we say that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean that He loves whom he chooses. God does not love everybody…” Walls argues that Pink’s statement is characteristic of Calvinism, even if it’s stated with a bluntness uncharacteristic of most Calvinists.


A god who can save all but chooses not to is not the God whom the Bible reveals.​


To see why this is so, consider the argument Walls makes:


  1. God truly loves all persons.
  2. Not all persons will be saved.
  3. Truly to love someone is to desire their well-being and to promote their true flourishing as much as you properly can.
  4. The well-being and true flourishing of all persons is to be found in a right relationship with God, a saving relationship in which we love and obey him.
  5. God could give all persons “irresistible grace” and thereby determine all persons to freely accept a right relationship with himself and be saved.
  6. Therefore, all persons will be saved.

Clearly, this set of propositions contains a contradiction between 2 and 6. Both Calvinists and Arminians affirm 2, however. They’re not universalists, in other words. Similarly, both affirm 4.


So, how do they resolve the contradiction? Arminians do so by denying 5. They deny, in other words, that grace is irresistible.


Irresistible grace is part and parcel of Calvinism, however. It’s the I in TULIP. That means Calvinists must deny either 1 or 3. That is, they must deny either that “God truly loves all persons” or that “Truly to love someone is to desire their well-being and to promote their true flourishing as much as you properly can.” As noted above, Arthur W. Pink clearly denied 1. (Walls quotes Calvin himself to similar effect.)


Contemporary Calvinists rarely deny 1, however. Instead, they affirm that God truly loves all persons. For example, D. A. Carson affirms that God loves everyone in the sense that He exercises “providential love over all that he has made” and adopts a “salvific stance toward his fallen world.” However, Carson denies that God gives everyone the “particular, effective, selecting love toward his elect.” It’s hard to square this “love” for “all persons” with the definition of love in 3. A God who could but chooses not to bestow “particular, effective, selecting love” on everyone does not “truly” love them because He does not seek their eternal “well-being” and “true flourishing.”


Walls suggests one further wrinkle when he discusses John Piper, probably the best known Baptist Calvinist. Walls argues that Piper denies 5, not by ditching “irresistible grace” but by suggesting that God has a “greater value” than salvation. Such as what? Piper writes, “The answer the Reformed give is that the greater value is the manifestation of the full range of God’s glory in wrath and mercy (Rom. 9:21–23) and the humbling of man so he enjoys giving all credit to God for his salvation (1 Cor. 1:29).” Because of this “greater value,” it seems that Piper denies God “could give all persons ‘irresistible grace’ [to be saved].” Some evidently must be condemned for God’s glory.

In order to maintain God’s sovereignty in election then, or to promote God’s glory, Calvinism denies that God loves everyone in the truest sense. Like Walls, I find this denial difficult to swallow. A god who can save all but chooses not to is not the God whom the Bible reveals, a God who is love (1 John 4:8).

Walls’ book is a brief outline of a much larger argument. Those looking for a more detailed argument should pick up his Why I Am Not a Calvinist, coauthored with Joseph R. Dongell. But that argument, even in outline form here, is difficult to rebut, as far as I am concerned.

Book Reviewed: Jerry L. Walls, Does God Love Everyone? The Heart of What Is Wrong with Calvinism (Eugene, OR: Cascade, 2016).
good explanations
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
The Bible knows nothing of your statement. I'm not sure, but I don't believe the Bible ever calls anyone to an opportunity. Can you point me to the chapter and verse where salvation is described as an opportunity.

Instead it says that no one can come unless the Fathers chooses them. No opportunity mentioned.

Acts 13:48​

King James Version​

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Not a word about an opportunity.

And then there is this:

John 6:44​

King James Version​

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Not a word about an opportunity.
in John 6:44 the drawing IS the opportunity.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. John 6:37
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. John 10:28
Yes. I think thise are great verses. and Calvinists don't seem to understand the difference between "being drawn" and "coming"
First we are drawn, then if we choose, we come
 

Predestined

Well-known member
That's okay. I'm wondering who ripped the pages out of your Bible.

Psalm 5
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
He still loves us all. It's in the Bible.

Hate is comparative and usually best translated as 'love less.'

Strongs #8130, hate - Hebrew sane; Aramaic sanah.

The word does not come into the English easily as Hebrew usually has a comparative analogy of 2 or more things when using this term.

God spoke of loving Jacob and Esau He hated - a better read would be ...and Esau He rejected.

The term hate can mean 'to love less,' to separate oneselve from, or reject.

Matthew gives the Hebrew truer translation when compared to Luke:

'If a man come to Me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple (Luke 14:26).

'He who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me (Matthew 10:37).
From your link 👍🏼


Hebrew Word for Hate​



“Sane’ ” (saw-nay’) is the Hebrew word that is often translated as hate. The ancient pictographic letters for “sane” are a thorn and a seed. The Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible explains this:



The pictograph is a picture of a thorn, then is a picture of seed. Combined these mean “thorn seed.” The thorn, (the seed of a plant with small sharp points) cause one to turn directions to avoid them.”
(“The Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible,” by Jeff A. Benner. ISBN 1-58939-776-2.)



Hate – Avoiding of Pain​



In Biblical times, thorns were used as fences to protect flocks from predators or even used as weapons. The idea was that thorns caused pain and the pain made someone avoid whatever caused it. Thorns created a shield, hedge of protection.



While intense emotions are sometimes involved, the ancient Hebrew view of hate was more about being hurt or wounded by something, because of love being involved. Opening oneself to love meant opening to hurt. Hate then meant staying away from that source of pain. We see this in Isaac’s response to Abimelech:



“Then Abimelech came to him from Gerar with his adviser Ahuzzath and Phicol the commander of his army. Isaac said to them, “Why have you come to me, since you hate me and have sent me away from you?”(Genesis 26:26-28)



Hatred was less about an intense confrontational emotion and inflicting pain. Instead, it was more about making choices to avoid that pain – physical or emotional.



God’s Character​



This understanding can directly affect our view of God’s character. If this true, consider a couple common scriptures in a whole new way:



And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb (Genesis 29:31; KJV)



Some translations use “un-loved” here instead of hated. There is nothing in the Scriptures that would suggest that Jacob was aggressive towards her. From what we can read, he mostly stayed away from Leah. This may have been due to his desire for Rachel. Or perhaps because Leah reminded him of Laban’s deceptions (Gen 29:21-25).

Jacob possibly avoided Leah, since their relationship was complicated to say the least. Yet, out of God’s compassion for Leah’s constant rejection, He gave her children.


Jacob I loved; Esau I hated (Mal 1:2; Romans 9:13)



Esau is the only person that God said He hated. Could it be that the Lord was so wounded by Esau’s rejection of His prized gift of the birthright for some stew that God wanted to stay away from him?



There is a very specific order of events here. God had not rejected Esau, rather Esau rejected God’s plan. It causes the Father a great amount of pain. In this context, this verse shows God’s broken heart rather than His anger at disobedience.



Love Your Enemies​



God character is not aloof to our experiences and He is not angry at one thoughtless act of disobedience. On the contrary, He is “compassionate and gracious, slow to anger…” (Exodus 34:6). When we feel pain, we want to withdraw; we are made in His Image. Yet Jesus challenges us to love those that hurt us. Instead of avoiding (hating), return in love.



“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you…” – Luke 6:27
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Paul killed 100’s of Christian’s .

And we were once all children of the devil as unbelievers as per 1 John and Ephesians 2

Any other questions
Why not use the argument I gave you for God Loving All people? It's an Argument that Calvinists will agree with; even if it makes them mad. My points are always full-proof since my approach is to use shared-beliefs...
 
Last edited:

Dizerner

Well-known member
No, God doesn't love these people who die in their Sin...

ACTUAL BIBLE VERSES:

22 "How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes, (Prov. 1:22-26 NKJ)

CALVINIST VERSION:

22 "How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? As long as I have decreed the scorners to delight in it, And the fools to hate knowledge.
23 You cannot turn at my rebuke; Surely I will never pour out my spirit on you; I will never make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and decreed you to refuse, I have stretched out my hand and decreed you not to regard,
25 Because I determined that you disdain all my counsel, And made sure that you would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity I ensured; I will mock when your terror comes that I made certain you receive.

Calvinist brings shame to the Bible and to the character of God, and misrepresents his heart and intentions.

Repent of this abomination that twists God's Word.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
ACTUAL BIBLE VERSES:

22 "How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes, (Prov. 1:22-26 NKJ)

CALVINIST VERSION:

22 "How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? As long as I have decreed the scorners to delight in it, And the fools to hate knowledge.
23 You cannot turn at my rebuke; Surely I will never pour out my spirit on you; I will never make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and decreed you to refuse, I have stretched out my hand and decreed you not to regard,
25 Because I determined that you disdain all my counsel, And made sure that you would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity I ensured; I will mock when your terror comes that I made certain you receive.

Calvinist brings shame to the Bible and to the character of God, and misrepresents his heart and intentions.

Repent of this abomination that twists God's Word.
I thought you wanted to stop arguing against Calvinism?
 
Top