Does God love everyone ?

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Gotta love the Bible, right?

We are Sola Scripturists. I think this Category can be tested to see if it actually fits those who claim it...
Samson's Pillars - by ReverendRV

Judges 16:29 KJV
; And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Most people know the story of Samson; the world’s strongest man. He was not really a very good man but he defended his people as a Judge of Israel. There came a time when his enemies used a woman to bring him down; many a man’s weakness. The Philistines blinded his eyes and kept him around, to bring him out from time to time and mock him. During a great party they displayed him in their midst but he’d reconciled with God, and sacrificed himself by pulling the house down; killing more than he ever had. ~ When someone has a bad doctrine, I use Samson and the Pillars as a way to show them they’re wrong. I get someone who disagrees with me to take turns giving verses we use to make our points, and I even let them go first. I have to agree with their verse and put one hand on it, while keeping my other hand on the verses for my side; like holding to both sides of the argument. The first one to take their hand off the other persons pillar is the Loser. The person I'm debating with always takes their hand of my column before I take my hand off their column. The other person can't see how both columns can be true at the same time! ~ Keeping our hands on all columns results in a Systematic Theology; believing All Scripture…

Samson was a Scoundrel; are you better than him? ~ Samson Lied to Delilah all the time; what do you think she called him for Lying to her? Have you ever told a Lie?? Hmm; I think she would call you a Liar too. Have you ever had an Affair? This is called Adultery; but you deny it. Jesus said that whoever looks upon a woman to Lust for her has committed Adultery with her in his Heart! Saint James said “Each one is tempted when his own evil desires lure him away and he’s enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to Sin; and when Sin is full-grown, it gives birth to death.” In case you didn’t notice, this is a picture of Adultery in the Heart. ~ These were only two of God’s Ten Commandments, if he judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? When you die, would you go to Heaven or to Hell?

Hell is a place of eternal torment and your hand is on its pillar; what you need to do is put your other hand on the pillar of Heaven; a place of eternal Glory! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God that takes away the Sin of the world. He gave up his life like Samson did, and Saved all who put their trust in him. He shed his blood and died on the Cross, was buried three days but rose from the grave; the Hope of eternal Life. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast; this is when you can take your hand off Hell’s pillar! Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and join a Bible believing Church. ~ Do you believe the whole Bible but think others don’t? Ask yourself; “Is his verse good or bad for my Doctrine?” When his verse is Fundamentally true but bad for your doctrine, maybe you’re the one who doesn’t believe all the Bible? @Predestined

2nd Timothy 3:16 KJV-a; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Yes. I think thise are great verses. and Calvinists don't seem to understand the difference between "being drawn" and "coming"
First we are drawn, then if we choose, we come

Actually, it is you who doesn't understand the difference.
"Draw" is the cause.
"Coming" is the effect".

There is no, "if we choose, we come" in John 6:44, or anywhere else in Scripture.
In fact, the idea of "drawn but does not come" is a denial of the drawing.
Drawing is ALWAYS 100% effectual.
You CANNOT say you ""drew" something if that object did not "come".

Here is a list of expressions which use the term, "draw":

"draw a gun"
"with-drawl"
"draw a sword"
"draw blood"
"draw blinds"
"draw interest"
"draw curtains"
"draw a breath"
"draw a cheque"
"the honey drew flies";
“the light drew moths”;
"the enemy drew fire";
"horse-drawn carriage";
"draw the short straw"
"draw on a bank account";
"draw water from a well"
"amount of power drawn";
"draw a card from a deck”
"draw a bow" (archery);
"the college drew students";
"the performance drew cheers";
"draw-er" (you drag/pull it open);
"draw" (winning ticket) for a 50/50 draw;
"the prisoner was drawn and quartered";
“draw on a cigarette" ("take a draw");

Here is how "draw" is used in the Bible:

Deut. 21:3 a heifer that...has not pulled <ἑλκύω> in a yoke.
2Sam. 22:17 he drew <ἑλκύω> me out of many waters.
1 Mac 10:82 Then brought <ἑλκύω> Simon forth his host,
3 Mac 5:49 infants drew <ἑλκύω> what seemed their last milk [from the breast].
4 Mac 11:9 the spearbearers bound him, and drew <ἑλκύω> him to the catapelt:
Ps. 10:9 he seizes the poor when he draws <ἑλκύω> him into his net.
Ps. 119:131 I open my mouth and pant <ἑλκύω pneuma>, lit. "draw air"
Eccl. 2:3 how to cheer my body with wine (lit., "draw <ἑλκύω> wine into my body"
Job 20:28 The possessions of his house will be carried away, <ἑλκύω>
Job 39:10 or will he harrow <ἑλκύω> the valleys after you? (lit. "drag your furrows")
Sir. 28:19 who hath not drawn <ἑλκύω> the yoke thereof,
Hab. 1:15 he drags <ἑλκύω> them out with his net;
Isa. 10:15 [shall] the saw magnify itself against him who wields <ἑλκύω> it?
Jer. 14:6 they pant <ἑλκύω> for air (lit. "draw air") like jackals;
Jer. 38:13 Then they drew <ἑλκύω> Jeremiah up with ropes
John 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew <ἑλκύω> it
John 21:6 So they cast [the net], and now they were not able to haul <ἑλκύω> it in
John 21:11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled <ἑλκύω> the net ashore
Acts 16:19 they seized Paul and Silas and dragged <ἑλκύω> them into the marketplace
Acts 21:30 They seized Paul and dragged <ἑλκύω> him out of the temple
James 2:6 the ones who drag <ἑλκύω> you into court?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
He still loves us all. It's in the Bible.

Depending on who you understand the group "us" to be.

Hate is comparative and usually best translated as 'love less.'

Only in one verse, hating father and mother.

If you have to REDEFINE the words in the Bible to get the theology you prefer, you're in a very sorry state. The Biblical word's MAIN meaning is "hate" or "detest", not "love less".
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Samson's Pillars - by ReverendRV

Judges 16:29 KJV
; And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Most people know the story of Samson; the world’s strongest man. He was not really a very good man but he defended his people as a Judge of Israel. There came a time when his enemies used a woman to bring him down; many a man’s weakness. The Philistines blinded his eyes and kept him around, to bring him out from time to time and mock him. During a great party they displayed him in their midst but he’d reconciled with God, and sacrificed himself by pulling the house down; killing more than he ever had. ~ When someone has a bad doctrine, I use Samson and the Pillars as a way to show them they’re wrong. I get someone who disagrees with me to take turns giving verses we use to make our points, and I even let them go first. I have to agree with their verse and put one hand on it, while keeping my other hand on the verses for my side; like holding to both sides of the argument. The first one to take their hand off the other persons pillar is the Loser. The person I'm debating with always takes their hand of my column before I take my hand off their column. The other person can't see how both columns can be true at the same time! ~ Keeping our hands on all columns results in a Systematic Theology; believing All Scripture…

Samson was a Scoundrel; are you better than him? ~ Samson Lied to Delilah all the time; what do you think she called him for Lying to her? Have you ever told a Lie?? Hmm; I think she would call you a Liar too. Have you ever had an Affair? This is called Adultery; but you deny it. Jesus said that whoever looks upon a woman to Lust for her has committed Adultery with her in his Heart! Saint James said “Each one is tempted when his own evil desires lure him away and he’s enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to Sin; and when Sin is full-grown, it gives birth to death.” In case you didn’t notice, this is a picture of Adultery in the Heart. ~ These were only two of God’s Ten Commandments, if he judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? When you die, would you go to Heaven or to Hell?

Hell is a place of eternal torment and your hand is on its pillar; what you need to do is put your other hand on the pillar of Heaven; a place of eternal Glory! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God that takes away the Sin of the world. He gave up his life like Samson did, and Saved all who put their trust in him. He shed his blood and died on the Cross, was buried three days but rose from the grave; the Hope of eternal Life. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast; this is when you can take your hand off Hell’s pillar! Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and join a Bible believing Church. ~ Do you believe the whole Bible but think others don’t? Ask yourself; “Is his verse good or bad for my Doctrine?” When his verse is Fundamentally true but bad for your doctrine, maybe you’re the one who doesn’t believe all the Bible? @Predestined

2nd Timothy 3:16 KJV-a; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,

Chalcedon said:
another old cut n paste


Me too?
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Why would an Arminian stop doing that or a Calvinist stop arguing againt non calvinists ? Did i miss something. The forum would disappear if we did not debate each others doctrines. It would be like not having a Presidential debate with Republicans and Democrats lol.
I'm cool with it. As long as we can do it in love. Otherwise we sound like a bunch of Clanging Symbols. It's in the Bible!

That's funny though. In our life group we have all agreed not to discuss politics. We just had one guy leave that had been in our group for 10 years because He saw another members car in the parking lot that had a sticker of President Biden pointing to the gas cap with the caption "I did that".
 
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G

guest1

Guest
I'm cool with it. As long as we can do it in love. Otherwise we sound like a bunch of Clanging Symbols. It's in the Bible!

That's funny though. In our life group we have all agreed not to discuss politics. We just had one guy leave that had been in our group for 10 years because He saw another members car in the parking lot that had a sticker of President Biden pointing do the gas cap with the caption "I did that".
Amen.
 
G

guest1

Guest
Chalcedon said:
another old cut n paste


Me too?
No but if its ok for one then its ok for all including tom and I.

and as an fyi on another forum from several cut n pastes I have saved on the deity of Christ a former unitarian who I have been challenging for the past 2 years on everything he posts just confessed Jesus is God, the Alpha and Omega, the Lord God Almighty. God can and does work through His word on the forums and can take a cultist from his false christ to seeing Christ as the True God and Eternal Life. Moral of the story never give up hope as God works through this medium. I remember seth saying it had the opposite effect on him so its a double edges sword.
 
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Predestined

Well-known member
Depending on who you understand the group "us" to be.



Only in one verse, hating father and mother.

If you have to REDEFINE the words in the Bible to get the theology you prefer, you're in a very sorry state. The Biblical word's MAIN meaning is "hate" or "detest", not "love less".
I'll Study more on that one later I'm still on 1st Peter this morning.



1 Peter

2 Who were chosen and foreknown by God the Father and consecrated (sanctified, made holy) by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and to be sprinkled with [His] blood: May grace (spiritual blessing) and peace be given you in increasing abundance [that spiritual peace to be realized in and through Christ, freedom from fears, agitating passions, and moral conflicts].


Got it.


3 Praised (honored, blessed) be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)! By His boundless mercy we have been born again to an ever-living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Like it.


4 [Born anew] into an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay [imperishable], unsullied and unfading, reserved in heaven for you

Really Like it.

Looks like this is going to be a good study!
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Are we having fun yet?

Something that I share a lot is that God said Let us make man in our image In Genesis 1:26, When He shaped and formed that mud together, He know He would die a sacrificial death in the form of His Son For us. It's in the Bible.

He said all of His Creation was good. And He loved so much even knowing that he was going to have to die a horrendous death for us, when did it change? When did He start only loving some of us. What am I missing here? What happened to immutability.

1 Peter

20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.


21 Through Him you believe in (adhere to, rely on) God, Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him honor and glory, so that your faith and hope are [centered and rest] in God.


22 Since by your obedience to the Truth through the [Holy] Spirit you have purified your hearts for the sincere affection of the brethren, [see that you] love one another fervently from a pure heart.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
He said all of His Creation was good.

Is it possible you're misunderstanding that?

And He loved so much

Where do you get "loved so much" from?

even knowing that he was going to have to die a horrendous death for us, when did it change? When did He start only loving some of us. What am I missing here? What happened to immutability.

Where does the Bible say anything "changed"?
Where does the Bible say that God "used to" love Esau?
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
Actually, it is you who doesn't understand the difference.
"Draw" is the cause.
"Coming" is the effect".

There is no, "if we choose, we come" in John 6:44, or anywhere else in Scripture.
In fact, the idea of "drawn but does not come" is a denial of the drawing.
Drawing is ALWAYS 100% effectual.
You CANNOT say you ""drew" something if that object did not "come".

Here is a list of expressions which use the term, "draw":

"draw a gun"
"with-drawl"
"draw a sword"
"draw blood"
"draw blinds"
"draw interest"
"draw curtains"
"draw a breath"
"draw a cheque"
"the honey drew flies";
“the light drew moths”;
"the enemy drew fire";
"horse-drawn carriage";
"draw the short straw"
"draw on a bank account";
"draw water from a well"
"amount of power drawn";
"draw a card from a deck”
"draw a bow" (archery);
"the college drew students";
"the performance drew cheers";
"draw-er" (you drag/pull it open);
"draw" (winning ticket) for a 50/50 draw;
"the prisoner was drawn and quartered";
“draw on a cigarette" ("take a draw");

Here is how "draw" is used in the Bible:

Deut. 21:3 a heifer that...has not pulled <ἑλκύω> in a yoke.
2Sam. 22:17 he drew <ἑλκύω> me out of many waters.
1 Mac 10:82 Then brought <ἑλκύω> Simon forth his host,
3 Mac 5:49 infants drew <ἑλκύω> what seemed their last milk [from the breast].
4 Mac 11:9 the spearbearers bound him, and drew <ἑλκύω> him to the catapelt:
Ps. 10:9 he seizes the poor when he draws <ἑλκύω> him into his net.
Ps. 119:131 I open my mouth and pant <ἑλκύω pneuma>, lit. "draw air"
Eccl. 2:3 how to cheer my body with wine (lit., "draw <ἑλκύω> wine into my body"
Job 20:28 The possessions of his house will be carried away, <ἑλκύω>
Job 39:10 or will he harrow <ἑλκύω> the valleys after you? (lit. "drag your furrows")
Sir. 28:19 who hath not drawn <ἑλκύω> the yoke thereof,
Hab. 1:15 he drags <ἑλκύω> them out with his net;
Isa. 10:15 [shall] the saw magnify itself against him who wields <ἑλκύω> it?
Jer. 14:6 they pant <ἑλκύω> for air (lit. "draw air") like jackals;
Jer. 38:13 Then they drew <ἑλκύω> Jeremiah up with ropes
John 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew <ἑλκύω> it
John 21:6 So they cast [the net], and now they were not able to haul <ἑλκύω> it in
John 21:11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled <ἑλκύω> the net ashore
Acts 16:19 they seized Paul and Silas and dragged <ἑλκύω> them into the marketplace
Acts 21:30 They seized Paul and dragged <ἑλκύω> him out of the temple
James 2:6 the ones who drag <ἑλκύω> you into court?
you say that "coming"is the effect. I think that is one way to express it. But Calvinists I have talked to change the meaning of the word "come" erasing the voluntary/intentional aspect of the word. "Come" is an action a person does, not a passive event.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
you say that "coming"is the effect. I think that is one way to express it. But Calvinists I have talked to change the meaning of the word "come" erasing the voluntary/intentional aspect of the word. "Come" is an action a person does, not a passive event.

Well, first of all, I dislike the accusation that it is Calvinists who are "changing" things.

Secondly, I don't think we are "erasing" anything. Of course the coming is voluntary (ie. willful), and intentional. But I think YOU are the one assuming a "control" or "option" to it.

In all cases of usage of "draw" both in the Bible and in modern day, the coming on the drawing was 100% successful and efficacious.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
you say that "coming"is the effect. I think that is one way to express it. But Calvinists I have talked to change the meaning of the word "come" erasing the voluntary/intentional aspect of the word. "Come" is an action a person does, not a passive event.
For my next post I'm going to draw upon my intellect. Well it keeps you coming up with" insufficient funds."
 
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