Does God predestine sin?

e v e

Super Member
Isaiah 45:7;KJV; I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God does two things here; or does he do four things? I think this is at the heart of your question. God uses the example of the first two things, to explain the second two things. God is Light, so the way he creates darkness is just by shining only. We're physical Matter, and we create Darkness by casting Shadows of Sin. Thus God Surreptitiously creates Darkness just by being God...

The last two things God does happen the same way. God makes Peace and creates Evil. God is good, so he is the standard of Righteousness. Just by being Righteous, we create Evil by Falling short of his Righteousness. Thus Surreptitiously, God creates Evil just by being God...

Some translate the Hebrew word 'Ra' here as calamity instead of as Evil. Nevertheless, God would create Calamity. But the Bible says God planted the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Ra in the Garden of Eden; sorry, I meant the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The same word Ra is used in both Verses. God didn't plant the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Calamity. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is symbolic of the Law of God; IE the Ten Commandments. In them is the Knowledge of Good and Evil...

Does God Predestine Sin? No, but God Decrees all which comes to pass. God Predestined the Cross of Christ, right? God Meant it for Good, for the Saving of many lives. But Wicked men Meant it for Evil, right? So something similar to Isaiah 45:7 also happens here; God Predestined the Act but not the Sin. A person's Meaning in an act determines whether or not the Act is a Sin. It never entered the Mind of God to Cause these Wicked men to Sin, but God did predestine it to happen for Good; For the Saving of your Life...

Aren't you glad he did?
this is right out of augustines reading of plato’s philosophy applied to God… where plato explains evil as lack.

evil is a real thing. not a lack.

God did not create evil - ever.
 

e v e

Super Member
I taught about this at university when teaching ancient greek philosophy. here are wiki cliff notes on the subject.

it’s augustines plato via plotinus shining through that he resorts to this greek thinking.

 

e v e

Super Member
aquinas was also deeply glued to greek philosophy but it was augustine that inserted his views to the catholic canon

of which much was transmitted without change to modern christianity.
 

e v e

Super Member
the essay in the wiki is cagey about attributing lack fully to plato when in fact it is utterly platonic and plato is exactly where augustine learned it.

there is a myth recounted by plato, and it is not the only place plato delivers this greek teaching, which explains how reality came to be by marrying eros to lack… there, the principle is explained and further throughout plato s dialogues is a 100% match to augustine’s understanding. Likewise augustine’s view of ‘karma’ (fate/determinism) is identical to plato’s.
 

e v e

Super Member
after that, consider that augustine was high up in the decision process of theological canon formation, accepted books, interpretation of scripture, etc.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
this is right out of augustines reading of plato’s philosophy applied to God… where plato explains evil as lack.

evil is a real thing. not a lack.

God did not create evil - ever.
FYI , no one on here has said God created evil(i haven’t seen anyone saying this), that’s a red herring you’re throwing into this thread to poison the well. What Calvinists aver is that God uses evil, as well as good, to fulfill His decreed will.
 

e v e

Super Member
FYI , no one on here has said God created evil(i haven’t seen anyone saying this), that’s a red herring you’re throwing into this thread to poison the well. What Calvinists aver is that God uses evil, as well as good, to fulfill His decreed will.
i will need to reread the thread title as to what the thread author means by predestine.

im not poisoning anything by replying to a posters comment as I did, because his opening lines used augustine’s formula, and that is what i replied to.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
after that, consider that augustine was high up in the decision process of theological canon formation, accepted books, interpretation of scripture, etc.
Calvinists believe we're to always be Reforming, getting closer and closer to the Bible; thus we bypass Augustine, Aquinas, etc, and look to the Apostles and the Prophets...
 

e v e

Super Member
The poster specifically did say God creates evil.

I did not agree and stated why.

Neither do I agree with either unbridled free will OR complete determinism.
 

e v e

Super Member
Calvinists believe we're to always be Reforming, getting closer and closer to the Bible; thus we bypass Augustine, Aquinas, etc, and look to the Apostles and the Prophets...
That is good…. as well calvin was a man and made some mistakes (good to bypass)

The safest bet is always God.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
i will need to reread the thread title as to what the thread author means by predestine.

im not poisoning anything by replying to a posters comment as I did, because his opening lines used augustine’s formula, and that is what i replied to.
This of yours is what I addressed…

God did not create evil - ever.

No one, that I know of, has made this statement. By you saying this, all you did was poison the well, toss a red herring into this thread, as no one said this.
 

e v e

Super Member
This of yours is what I addressed…



No one, that I know of, has made this statement. By you saying this, all you did was poison the well, toss a red herring into this thread, as no one said this.
if you carefully read the post i was replying to, you will see the poster did claim that. i will quote it now.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That is good…. as well calvin was a man and made some mistakes (good to bypass)

The safest bet is always God.
Yes, in another Post i said we bypass Calvin to get to Paul, etc. Of course the Bible teaches Calvinism...
 

e v e

Super Member
Thus God Surreptitiously creates Darkness just by being God...

The last two things God does happen the same way. God makes Peace and creates Evil. God is good, so he is the standard of Righteousness. Just by being Righteous, we create Evil by Falling short of his Righteousness. Thus Surreptitiously, God creates Evil just by being God...

Some translate the Hebrew word 'Ra' here as calamity instead of as Evil. Nevertheless, God would create Calamity. But the Bible says God planted the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Ra in the Garden of Eden; sorry, I meant the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The same word Ra is used in both Verses. God didn't plant the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Calamity. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is symbolic of the Law of God; IE the Ten Commandments. In them is the Knowledge of Good and Evil...
i disagree with this.
 

e v e

Super Member
Rev, take no offense… i was trying to explain that i disagree with you about any en passant creation of evil as lack or as attributable to God through a secondary cause.
 
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