Does God Want Everyone to Know Him?

docphin5

Well-known member
If I say, “YES”, then that makes God (1) either unwilling or unable to make himself known because some do not know him. I hear atheists default to that position a lot.

Therefore, is God either unwilling or unable to make himself known?

If unable then arguably he is unworthy of belief. If unwilling then it is unjust for him to condemn us for not believing. These are the facts of the matter.

But what if there is an answer to the OP’s question, albeit, requiring a bit of sophistication, without forcing us to choose between either an unworthy God or an unjust God? (Warning: If sophistication or critical thinking is not your thing then you can stop reading here.)

WHAT IF (I am speculating here) the state of creation (ie., the current universe or cosmos) is separated from God, NOT due to anything we have done but due to something that happened on a cosmic scale way before our time? A “Something” that may be referred to as the “cosmic sin” if we are to seek its corollary in scripture (eg., John 1:29). (At least indulge me that). A perturbation of the universal existence resulting in the Big Bang, and consequently a material cosmos that was lifeless and chaotic.

In that scenario we would ALL be born into a material world separated from God. Therefore, individuals who never believe in a divine entity remain separated from God NOT necessarily due to your choice but due to something, the cosmic sin, that preceded you. You have been “blinded” from perceiving God by the same “something” that caused a perturbation of the universal existence.

Therefore, if you never believe in an absolute Good God then you remain a part of the lifeless and chaotic cosmos due to the “cosmic sin”. Your current state REMAINS that of the material cosmos. IOW, nothing changes for you. You cannot claim God is unjust because the cosmos already paid the price for sin and you merely remain a part of that judgment for not believing.

Whereas, those who believe in and submit to the absolute Good One are being rescued from a material cosmos separated from God, —not physically rescued, but their souls are being rescued, “set apart”, for the intelligible world perceived in the future, when matter has been returned to God and made new, as it was, “in the Beginning.” It is to these souls being rescued that God has made himself known as the absolute Good One both willing and able to make himself known.

In this way ^^^^^^^^ God rescues those returning to him from a cosmic sin that separated our world from him. Unbelief is ultimately the result of something that happened way before our time that continues to ripple across space and time, but not forever.

For the sake of brevity I will end here.

——
1) For the sake of argument “God” is defined as the Most High God, namely, Elyon, an absolute Good Source of everything and therefore is itself pre-existent.
 

Furion

Well-known member
If I say, “YES”

I would rather God speak for Himself, which is to say glean your answer from scripture.

I do know He tells us He wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That doesn't say everyone will, it doesn't say God will assure it either.

We also know the primary and secondary way for people to come to this knowledge. Christ lifted up on the cross.

So I see God giving man all he needs to come to this knowledge. No matter what atheists say, the choice within the message is right there staring them in the face. And they make it, whether they admit it or not.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
I would rather God speak for Himself, which is to say glean your answer from scripture.
Except scripture was written by men putting abstract concepts into myth for initiates to better grasp. At some point the myths must be demythologized for us to grow into the sons and daughters of God. The diet must adjust from milk to meat if we are to become adults.
I do know He tells us He wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That doesn't say everyone will, it doesn't say God will assure it either.

We also know the primary and secondary way for people to come to this knowledge. Christ lifted up on the cross.
The dying son of god on a cross is mythical for the cosmic son of god dying for a cosmic sin correlating with the Big Bang and his “body” spread out across the cosmos. Since the Big Bang could not be demonstrated by science then his death was represented by a mythical story. But make no mistake, its underlying meaning pertained to cosmogenesis as demonstrated in the Nag hammadi.

The rising son of god in us is a moral consciousness returning to the Most High God. The bodily resurrected son of god is the cosmos made anew.

So I see God giving man all he needs to come to this knowledge. No matter what atheists say, the choice within the message is right there staring them in the face. And they make it, whether they admit it or not.
The knowledge of God is made evident from creation to include our moral consciousness, a gift from God, but not as you say, by interpreting the scriptures literally. Some critical thinking is required.

”The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.” (Psalm 19:1)
 
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CrowCross

Super Member
It's not about knowing God....it's about knowing Christ Jesus.

Knowing there is a God is one thing...but knowing His salvation through Christ Jesus is another.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
It's not about knowing God....it's about knowing Christ Jesus.

Knowing there is a God is one thing...but knowing His salvation through Christ Jesus is another.
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.” (John 17:3)
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
WHAT IF (I am speculating here) the state of creation (ie., the current universe or cosmos) is separated from God, NOT due to anything we have done but due to something that happened on a cosmic scale way before our time?

I think you may be on to something here. Before Adam came on the scene there was a lot of activity in the unseen realm. Both John Milton's poetic speculations and Jacob Boehme might shed some light on your own speculations. And a study of the "ransom" and to whom it was paid and why it was paid might be helpful. Interesting OP.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.” (John 17:3)
Now we have to expand on what knowing is.

I said...Knowing there is a God is one thing. Knowing God (the Father) on the next level only comes through knowing God the Son, Jesus......and you can't come to the Son unless the Father grants you the ability. (John 6:65)
 

Furion

Well-known member
Except scripture was written by men putting abstract concepts into myth for initiates to better grasp.

Then just make it up yourself?

”The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.” (Psalm 19:1)

Why quote scripture to me?

You've already said it's but words of men...

Your method of conversation is self defeating.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
If I say, “YES”, then that makes God (1) either unwilling or unable to make himself known because some do not know him. I hear atheists default to that position a lot.

Therefore, is God either unwilling or unable to make himself known?

If unable then arguably he is unworthy of belief. If unwilling then it is unjust for him to condemn us for not believing. These are the facts of the matter.

But what if there is an answer to the OP’s question, albeit, requiring a bit of sophistication, without forcing us to choose between either an unworthy God or an unjust God? (Warning: If sophistication or critical thinking is not your thing then you can stop reading here.)

WHAT IF (I am speculating here) the state of creation (ie., the current universe or cosmos) is separated from God, NOT due to anything we have done but due to something that happened on a cosmic scale way before our time? A “Something” that may be referred to as the “cosmic sin” if we are to seek its corollary in scripture (eg., John 1:29). (At least indulge me that). A perturbation of the universal existence resulting in the Big Bang, and consequently a material cosmos that was lifeless and chaotic.

In that scenario we would ALL be born into a material world separated from God. Therefore, individuals who never believe in a divine entity remain separated from God NOT necessarily due to your choice but due to something, the cosmic sin, that preceded you. You have been “blinded” from perceiving God by the same “something” that caused a perturbation of the universal existence.

Therefore, if you never believe in an absolute Good God then you remain a part of the lifeless and chaotic cosmos due to the “cosmic sin”. Your current state REMAINS that of the material cosmos. IOW, nothing changes for you. You cannot claim God is unjust because the cosmos already paid the price for sin and you merely remain a part of that judgment for not believing.

Whereas, those who believe in and submit to the absolute Good One are being rescued from a material cosmos separated from God, —not physically rescued, but their souls are being rescued, “set apart”, for the intelligible world perceived in the future, when matter has been returned to God and made new, as it was, “in the Beginning.” It is to these souls being rescued that God has made himself known as the absolute Good One both willing and able to make himself known.

In this way ^^^^^^^^ God rescues those returning to him from a cosmic sin that separated our world from him. Unbelief is ultimately the result of something that happened way before our time that continues to ripple across space and time, but not forever.

For the sake of brevity I will end here.

——
1) For the sake of argument “God” is defined as the Most High God, namely, Elyon, an absolute Good Source of everything and therefore is itself pre-existent.
The OP talked about the separation from God, but I didn't see anything in the OP that addresses why God wouldn't make himself known to everyone, assuming he is capable and wants us to know him.

Can you highlight that for me?
 

CrowCross

Super Member
The OP talked about the separation from God, but I didn't see anything in the OP that addresses why God wouldn't make himself known to everyone, assuming he is capable and wants us to know him.

Can you highlight that for me?
Gus, another question is...if God is trying to make Himself know to you...why do you fight Him every chance you have?
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Gus, another question is...if God is trying to make Himself know to you...why do you fight Him every chance you have?
As far as I can tell, the claim that I'm fighting knowledge of God's existence is completely dependent on the claim that God exists. So you're basically just telling me that God exists.

K thx.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
As far as I can tell, the claim that I'm fighting knowledge of God's existence is completely dependent on the claim that God exists. So you're basically just telling me that God exists.

K thx.
No Gus, it's you can't handle the concept of God existing. Despite all the evidence presented to you over the years....which you think you cleverly adverted answering.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
No Gus, it's you can't handle the concept of God existing. Despite all the evidence presented to you over the years....which you think you cleverly adverted answering.
I could absolutely handle God existing. It would be **great** to know that I could live forever, as long as I fulfill the criteria. Geez, I sure don't want to die!
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
No Gus, it's you can't handle the concept of God existing. Despite all the evidence presented to you over the years....which you think you cleverly adverted answering.
But, this is just you not understand why atheists rightly or wrongly disbelieve. So you come up with, not being able to handle the concept of God existing.
 

Semmelweis Reflex

Active member
The OP talked about the separation from God, but I didn't see anything in the OP that addresses why God wouldn't make himself known to everyone, assuming he is capable and wants us to know him.

Can you highlight that for me?

I can. Jehovah's purpose will be fulfilled. If Jehovah says it's going to happen, then it's going to happen. He doesn't need to save everyone in order for his purpose to be fulfilled. He created Adam and Eve to live forever; to fill and subdue the Earth. That's the purpose for mankind. Anyone is welcome to join. So long as they follow the rules.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
I could absolutely handle God existing. It would be **great** to know that I could live forever, as long as I fulfill the criteria. Geez, I sure don't want to die!
Except belief...there is no criteria to fulfill.....but, you can't even get to belief.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Except belief...there is no criteria to fulfill.....but, you can't even get to belief.
In the sense I meant "criteria," one of the criteria to gain everlasting life is to believe that God exists, which is what you claim I am fighting against.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
In the sense I meant "criteria," one of the criteria to gain everlasting life is to believe that God exists, which is what you claim I am fighting against.
You are fighting against the existance of God....especially what this God is telling you.
 
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