Does Gods Meticulous Determination, Of All Things, Make God Evil?

preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Septextura said:
God's holiness cannot be impacted by what man does or doesn't do. Of course God is separate from sin. What is sin? Disobedience against God. By commanding man what to and not to do, God automatically makes man capable of sinning (disobeying). Can a country have criminals without a legal system? If no commandments are given, we can't break any. This is why the law is good but it yields death. This is why we need GRACE!





If God ordained all this, then why are we to blame?



Can Flowers Leighton resist God's will? Can Tom? Can I? Can the fish resist the dragnet?
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Yes.

I'm fairly certain @TomFL is missing what "who resists His will?" means, which is enjoined to the fact of God's sovereignty in exercising justice or mercy as He wills.

The man is complaining no one can do anything about it, and thus it is unfair for God to be God (to have mercy only on some, and not on others). He then blames God for still finding fault since He created each person however He desired, and, for whatever intended purpose He willed, all the while saving only some and exercising justice on others.

This finding fault with God is in essence still going on right now apparently: God is deemed by some on here as unfair (unjust) since, not if, He does as He wills and according to what He has revealed about Himself in his word. Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 express these truths nicely.

Instead of persons trying to get "God off the hook" (figuratively speaking) while trying to explain away these solemn truths, they ought rather embrace these truths, and bow in fear and reverence to this Holy Sovereign God.
 
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TomFL

Guest
preacher4truth said:
Yes.

I'm fairly certain @TomFL is missing what "who resists His will?" means, which is enjoined to the fact of God's sovereignty in exercising justice or mercy as He wills.

The man is complaining no one can do anything about it, and thus it is unfair for God to be God (to have mercy only on some, and not on others) and blames God for still finding fault since He created each person however He desired and for whatever intended purpose He willed, while saving some and exercising justice on others.

This finding fault with God is in essence still going on right now apparently: God is deemed by some on here as unfair (unjust) since, not if, He does as He wills and according to what He has revealed about Himself in his word. Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 express these truths nicely.

Instead of persons trying to get "God off the hook" figuratively speaking while trying to explain away these solemn truths, they ought rather embrace these truths, and bow in fear and reverence to this Holy Sovereign God.
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You totally missed the meaning of Romans 9

See previous expositions of romans 9

but the passge is not about a determinist vs a non determint perspective ot an Arminian vs a Calvinist one

The passage concerns Israel and whether God's plan had failed because of the unfaithfulness of Israel

Paul's protester is a Jew who is being used for an ignoble purpose and not someone unconditionally elected to

reprobation before the foundation of the earth

That idea has to be read into the passage.

God had judically hardened Israel to accomplish the crucifixion but it was temporary and in time and not

unconditional as Paul held out hope for Israel

Rom. 11:18–23 —KJV
“Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.”
 
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Septextura

Septextura

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
Yes.

I'm fairly certain @TomFL is missing what "who resists His will?" means, which is enjoined to the fact of God's sovereignty in exercising justice or mercy as He wills.

The man is complaining no one can do anything about it, and thus it is unfair for God to be God (to have mercy only on some, and not on others) and blames God for still finding fault since He created each person however He desired and for whatever intended purpose He willed, while saving some and exercising justice on others.

This finding fault with God is in essence still going on right now apparently: God is deemed by some on here as unfair (unjust) since, not if, He does as He wills and according to what He has revealed about Himself in his word. Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 express these truths nicely.

Instead of persons trying to get "God off the hook" figuratively speaking while trying to explain away these solemn truths, they ought rather embrace these truths, and bow in fear and reverence to this Holy Sovereign God.
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I understand some have good intentions but they are missing the whole point of all this saga, which is to glorify God in power. We don't chose how God wants to be glorified.

Romans 9
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
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Daniel 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
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TomFL

Guest
Septextura said:
I understand some have good intentions but they are missing the whole point of all this saga, which is to glorify God in power. We don't chose how God wants to be glorified.
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Where are we told we glorify God's power more than his holiness and love

God's power can be glorified with detracting from his hoiness or love
 
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TomFL

Guest
Septextura said:
When God killed every firstborn male baby in Egypt, did it take away from His holiness and love towards His elect? Or did it demonstrate it?
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No but what does that have to do with God deteremining all the sin of the world ?

Including that of his elect Israel ?

Which BTW failed to be saved
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
TomFL said:
You totally missed the meaning of Romans 9

See previous expositions of romans 9
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You're projecting. You've never given an exposition of Romans 9.

Ever.

Eisegetical blather? Yes, such is your forté.

You can't even stay IN Romans 9 in order to exegete it, but instead, like your false teaching mentor Flowers you go outside Romans 9, misinterpret and missapply another passage, and attempt to force it on the former.

You pit Scripture against Scripture.

Sorry, what you practice isn't "exposition."

I've given the meaning of what that passage is clearly stating. It is so obvious what is going on in that text that it is remarkable you cannot see it at all.

I'm not going to be trolled by you back and forth all day over you denying truth, as you do with others hours on end. It is obvious you don't study or know how to implement 2 Timothy 2:15.

The text is plain and clear as it is plain and clear that you reject its truths.
 
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TomFL

Guest
preacher4truth said:
You're projecting. You've never given an exposition of Romans 9.
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Now you are speaking falsely


Just today I have twice (aside from your post) addressed critical verses

You haver not responded to it and all youn offer is rhetoric
 
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TomFL

Guest
preacher4truth said:
You're projecting. You've never given an exposition of Romans 9.
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Now you are speaking falsely

Just today I have twice (aside from your post) addressed critical verses

You have not responded to it and all you offer is rhetoric

BTW Romans 8-11 is a unit all concerned with Israels failure to arrive

You cannot interpret Romans 9 contrary to Romans 11
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
@TomFL , as I clearly stated, I'm not interested in being trolled into silly arguments with you all day. I've expressed the truth of the passage, you reject it, so, move along.

It isn't time worthy to spend hours arguing insanely back and forth as you do day after day repeating the same error over and again.

Good day.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
<snip>You've never given an exposition of Romans 9.

Ever.

Eisegetical blather? Yes, such is your forté.

You can't even stay IN Romans 9 in order to exegete it, but instead, like your false teaching mentor Flowers you go outside Romans 9, misinterpret and missapply another passage, and attempt to force it on the former.

You pit Scripture against Scripture.

Sorry, what you practice isn't "exposition."<snip>
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Gee, I wonder who else this reminds me of? 🤔
 
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TomFL

Guest
preacher4truth said:
@TomFL , as I clearly stated, I'm not interested in being trolled into silly arguments with you all day. I've expressed the truth of the passage, you reject it, so, move along.

It isn't time worthy to spend hours arguing insanely back and forth as you do day after day repeating the same error over and again.

Good day.
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Sorry it takes more than your bald denials to settle an issue

If you dont want to or rather cannot support your view

you have that right

but that does not tranlate to you having extolled the truth
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
For each person in here, I recall finding out these truths and then reading Exodus 33:19 &c with all of this in mind.

When Moses asked to see and know more of God and His glory, what did He then reveal about Himself to show Moses more about Him? Well, He showed how He is Sovereign over salvation: "And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Certainly, Moses was keenly aware of this truth after seeing the works of God in and upon Egypt.

This floored me spiritually when I read it because I had come to that same conclusion in reading through Scripture. It is a solemn, glorious truth about our God! It is so wonderful when God shows to us these things in His Scripture. I am genuinely saddened watching many reject these truths and the God of whom they speak and reveal.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
@TomFL , as I clearly stated, I'm not interested in being trolled into silly arguments with you all day. I've expressed the truth of the passage, you reject it, so, move along.

It isn't time worthy to spend hours arguing insanely back and forth as you do day after day repeating the same error over and again.

Good day.
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From Nov. 20th until today, he’s added 2,087 posts as of now, and he’s still got 15 hours and 10 minutes to add to it. That’s an avg of 123 posts per day over 17 days. :eek:
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
I don't know what you mean then.
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I guess I’m gon hafta spell it out for you...

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<snip>You've never given an exposition of Romans 9.

Ever.

Eisegetical blather? Yes, such is your forté.

You can't even stay IN Romans 9 in order to exegete it, but instead, like your false teaching mentor Flowers you go outside Romans 9, misinterpret and missapply another passage, and attempt to force it on the former.

You pit Scripture against Scripture.

Sorry, what you practice isn't "exposition."<snip>

===============================================

I asked you who does this ^^^^^^^^ remind you of? 🌻🌼🌸 Get it now? The years of rooting for the Buckeyes in football has gotten to you. :) :D
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
SovereignGrace said:
I guess I’m gon hafta spell it out for you...

==========================================
<snip>You've never given an exposition of Romans 9.

Ever.

Eisegetical blather? Yes, such is your forté.

You can't even stay IN Romans 9 in order to exegete it, but instead, like your false teaching mentor Flowers you go outside Romans 9, misinterpret and missapply another passage, and attempt to force it on the former.

You pit Scripture against Scripture.

Sorry, what you practice isn't "exposition."<snip>

===============================================

I asked you who does this ^^^^^^^^ remind you of? 🌻🌼🌸 Get it now? The years of rooting for the Buckeyes in football has gotten to you. :) :D
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That's why I put Luke 6:40 there as a response:

"A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. "

D'oh! ;):LOL:
 
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