Does it prove that apostoles preached baptism for salvation?

[ziapueblo]

Why would paul thank God that he Baptized but a few, while he preached the Gospel IF water Baptism required?

Saint Paul does not say that baptism is not essential to the gospel. He is concerned with the administration of baptism. Saint Paul is addressing a problem that arose in the Church of Corinth where some were identifying themselves with particular ministers and causing division within the community. In 1 Corinthians 1:11-12 he writes, "For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren. What I mean is that each one of you says, 'I belong to Paul,' or 'I belong to Apollos,' or 'I belong to Cephas,' or 'I belong to Christ'."

The Corinthians were adopting religious affiliations based on the minister who baptized them. Thus, Saint Paul was grateful that he had not baptized more people than he did among the Corinthians, lest they affiliate themselves with him.

It is also useful to point out that Saint Paul is using hyperbole in order to emphasize two things. First, it doesn’t matter by whom you’re baptized, and second, his apostolic role is not restricted to administering baptism but also involves preaching the gospel. St. Pauls statement, "For Christ did not send me to baptize," is hyperbolic because Jesus commanded all apostles to make disciples of all nations by baptizing them. Because St. Paul is an apostle, baptizing is part of his ministry. If Paul was not sent to baptize, then he was disobedient to his ministry since he did baptize Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanas, which he tells us about in verse 14. Do we want to say that the great apostle Paul was disobedient to Jesus’ instruction?

If baptism in not essential, this is inconsistent with Pauls own writings, for Romans 6:3-4 states, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."

He goes on to say, "We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. For he who has died is freed from sin (Romans 6:6-7)."

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

Why would paul thank God that he Baptized but a few, while he preached the Gospel IF water Baptism required?

Paul is focused on the division in the Corinthian church. That division was based on who did the baptizing. Paul is downplaying the importance of what human baptizes you, not the importance of baptism itself. He acknowledged later that it is, in reality, the Holy Spirit that we are baptized by (1 Cor. 12:13) and the human that baptizes you is wholly irrelevant. Paul is glad that he baptized so few so that they could not say to others "well, I was baptized by Paul, I'm more special than you because of it."

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

By faith in Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

You stopped too early again. Keep reading through verse 27.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

Does the Holy Spirit come to indwell and seal us when dunked in water, or when Faith in Jesus as Lord?

What do you mean by indwell?

 

[Our Lord's God]

Saint Paul does not say that baptism is not essential to the gospel. He is concerned with the administration of baptism. Saint Paul is addressing a problem that arose in the Church of Corinth where some were identifying themselves with particular ministers and causing division within the community. In 1 Corinthians 1:11-12 he writes, "For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren. What I mean is that each one of you says, 'I belong to Paul,' or 'I belong to Apollos,' or 'I belong to Cephas,' or 'I belong to Christ'."

The Corinthians were adopting religious affiliations based on the minister who baptized them. Thus, Saint Paul was grateful that he had not baptized more people than he did among the Corinthians, lest they affiliate themselves with him.

No, not quite. They were dividing up into facts based on the different teaching wisdom perspectives of the various apostles. In their heads, they imagined they were baptized into Paul's teaching system or Peter's teaching system, etc.

It is also useful to point out that Saint Paul is using hyperbole in order to emphasize two things. First, it doesn’t matter by whom you’re baptized, and second, his apostolic role is not restricted to administering baptism but also involves preaching the gospel.

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

St. Pauls statement, "For Christ did not send me to baptize," is hyperbolic because Jesus commanded all apostles to make disciples of all nations by baptizing them. Because St. Paul is an apostle, baptizing is part of his ministry. If Paul was not sent to baptize, then he was disobedient to his ministry since he did baptize Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanas, which he tells us about in verse 14. Do we want to say that the great apostle Paul was disobedient to Jesus’ instruction?

He means that Christ did not send Paul to baptize anyone into Paul's name and Paul's wisdom.

If baptism in not essential, this is inconsistent with Pauls own writings, for Romans 6:3-4 states, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."

He goes on to say, "We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. For he who has died is freed from sin (Romans 6:6-7)."

Dying with Christ in water baptism is HOW we put our faith in Christ to be raised up to new life in the Spirit.

It's that simple.

 

[UncleAbee]

If you are trying to make sense of what has happened in the Book of Acts, then you have to go to what is plainly taught to the churches in the epistles.

As it is, we can apply your skepticism to the errant teaching you seem to believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation and yet it is by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins plainly stated by Peter and as soon as they heard that word, the Holy Ghost fell on them which is the promise for all those that believe in Jesus Christ at their salvation; hence going to the traditions taught of us when that sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth was received at the calling of the gospel.

What you are having a hard time grasping is that the HG falling on them does not mean they were saved. It says that no place in the Acts 10-11 passages.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 2:38 - "Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Same book. Was Peter contradicting himself? If you believe you will receive the HG because that belief will lead to obedience. It's just like saying "get on the bus and you'll get home." I won't be at home as soon as I step foot on the bus. Other things take place in between.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

No water baptism mentioned here for that salvation effect and yet that is the tradition taught of us.

Again you are pulling verses from another book and another context.

So apply your skepticism to Acts 2 about water baptism when the Gentiles were saved without water baptism. Thus the commandment to be water baptized has nothing to do with the remission of sins but everything to do for new believers in following Him as His disciples per the Gentiles.

Read Acts 2:38 again. Also read Acts 22:16.

 

[UncleAbee]

The thief upon the Cross made heaven apart from water Baptism!

You are building doctrine on an exception. Jesus was still alive and on Earth. Look at Matt 9:6. Now that he has died and risen baptism is the order of the day.

 

[Hark]

You stopped too early again. Keep reading through verse 27.

Okay.. adding verse 14 ..as I believe the promise of the Spirit is the baptism spoken of here as putting on Christ.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith........26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Hark]

What you are having a hard time grasping is that the HG falling on them does not mean they were saved. It says that no place in the Acts 10-11 passages.

Acts 2:38 - "Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Same book. Was Peter contradicting himself? If you believe you will receive the HG because that belief will lead to obedience. It's just like saying "get on the bus and you'll get home." I won't be at home as soon as I step foot on the bus. Other things take place in between.

Again you are pulling verses from another book and another context.

Read Acts 2:38 again. Also read Acts 22:16.

You cannot align what had happened with the Gentiles in according to your belief when they were not water baptized until afterwards in receiving the promise of the Spirit. You keep referring to Acts but I can do the same.

Acts 16:25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Then it was after they were saved was when hey got water baptized.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

So I believe you are misapplying the words in Acts when believing in Him is how any believer receives the remission of sins.

I believe Jesus when He says when and how the born again of the Spirit will happen as this will happen after His ascension which is after His crucifixion, that by believing in Him is how we are saved for when that born again of the Spirit happens at our salvation moment.

John 3:.13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No mention of water baptism here for that born again of the Spirit moment at our salvation. It is not necessary for salvation but water baptism is necessary for discipleship.

 

[YeshuaFan]

You cannot align what had happened with the Gentiles in according to your belief when they were not water baptized until afterwards in receiving the promise of the Spirit. You keep referring to Acts but I can do the same.

Acts 16:25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Then it was after they were saved was when hey got water baptized.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

So I believe you are misapplying the words in Acts when believing in Him is how any believer receives the remission of sins.

I believe Jesus when He says when and how the born again of the Spirit will happen as this will happen after His ascension which is after His crucifixion, that by believing in Him is how we are saved for when that born again of the Spirit happens at our salvation moment.

John 3:.13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No mention of water baptism here for that born again of the Spirit moment at our salvation. It is not necessary for salvation but water baptism is necessary for discipleship.

Jesus stated in the Great Commission that disciples are to be baptized!

 

[Hark]

Jesus stated in the Great Commission that disciples are to be baptized!

Right. Water baptism is an ordinance or a commandment for newly saved believers to do in following Him as His disciples. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

Jesus stated in the Great Commission that disciples are to be baptized!

That's not what it says. It says to teach, to immerse, then to teach the rest. If you want to translate μαθητεύσατε as "make disciples" rather than teach, a disciple is one who follows their master's teaching. Teaching them is the master's part. Being baptized is the follower's part. Its how a disciple becomes a disciple. If teaching is all it took, then all who hear are saved.

 

[UncleAbee]

So I believe you are misapplying the words in Acts when believing in Him is how any believer receives the remission of sins.

Acts 2:38 - Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Pretty plain language. If Acts also teaches that remission of sins is achieved after belief then it is contradicting itself.

 

[Theo1689]

Saint Paul does not say that baptism is not essential to the gospel.

Cultists always use deceptive tactics like a double negative, which is basically an argument from silence.

Because St. Paul is an apostle, baptizing is part of his ministry.

Clearly you've never read the Bible.

1Cor. 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

Why is Paul "thanking God" for (according to you) rejecting part of his ministry?

If baptism in not essential, this is inconsistent with Pauls own writings,

Not at all.
And if you want to use the possessive ("Paul's"), you should probably buy an apostrophe.
Just sayin'.

for Romans 6:3-4 states, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."

Nothing there about "water baptism" being "necessary".

You might want to read ALL of Paul's writings.... You know, Eph. 2:8-9, Tit. 3:5, 2 Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc. etc.?

 

[Theo1689]

Jesus stated in the Great Commission that disciples are to be baptized!

Yes, of course.
But that doesn't make it "necessary for salvation".

We obey Christ BECAUSE we are saved, not "in order to be saved".
Sadly, you're arguing just like a Mormon.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes, of course.
But that doesn't make it "necessary for salvation".

We obey Christ BECAUSE we are saved, not "in order to be saved".
Sadly, you're arguing just like a Mormon.

I think that you are misunderstanding me, was trying to show that scriptures indicate saved then water baptized in order to be in obedience to the Lord, but not as part of the salvation process!

 

[BJ Bear]

Yes, of course.
But that doesn't make it "necessary for salvation".

We obey Christ BECAUSE we are saved, not "in order to be saved".
Sadly, you're arguing just like a Mormon.

Sadly, you are still trying to make the passive object in baptism the acting subject. That's not listening to Jesus or Scripture about baptism, but it is listening to someone's misguided inferences.

 

[Theo1689]

Sadly, you are still trying to make the passive object in baptism the acting subject.

Well, I guess that means you're going to have to spend the rest of your life being condescendingly sad at me (and presumably others), simply because we refuse to blindly accept your fallible OPINION.

That falls under the category of "not my problem".

That's not listening to Jesus or Scripture about baptism, but it is listening to someone's misguided inferences.

You don't speak for Jesus.
And you don't speak for me.
Kindly get over yourself.

 

[Theo1689]

That's not what it says. It says to teach, to immerse, then to teach the rest.

Well, if you can demonstrate sufficient training in Koine to overrule the unanimity of all Greek scholars who have translated the gospels before you, I might consider taking your claims seriously.

If you want to translate μαθητεύσατε as "make disciples" rather than teach, a disciple is one who follows their master's teaching.

Let's see... "μαθητεθσατε" LITERALLY means, "make disciples". It is the verbal cognate of the noun, "μαθητης", which means "disciple".

The word for "teach" is "dιδασκω", from which we get the English cognate, "didactic".

So yeah, it doesn't seem you know the first thing about Koine Greek, and I don't think anyone should trust your misguided opinions on "translation".

Btw, the VERY next verse:

Matt. 28:20 teaching ("διδασκοντες") them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Jesus is LITERALLY telling the apostles to "teach", not "leave it to the master".

If teaching is all it took, then all who hear are saved.

Wow.... You failed logic class as well.

"Teaching" isn't the same as "hearing".
Not by a long shot.

 

[BJ Bear]

Well, I guess that means you're going to have to spend the rest of your life being condescendingly sad at me (and presumably others), simply because we refuse to blindly accept your fallible OPINION.

That falls under the category of "not my problem".

If borrowing your expression evokes from you, "spend the rest of your life being condescendingly sad at me (and presumably others), simply because we refuse to blindly accept your fallible OPINION," does it evoke the same from you when you use it?

You don't speak for Jesus.
And you don't speak for me.
Kindly get over yourself.

No, I don't speak for Jesus but I do echo what He and Scripture say in this regard.

Yes, I don't speak for you but it is no great task to compare what Scripture says and what you say and see the radical difference.

Kindly get over yourself.