Does it prove that apostoles preached baptism for salvation?

[Theo1689]

Yes, I don't speak for you but it is no great task to compare what Scripture says and what you say and see the radical difference.

Well, I see "the radical difference" between what Scripture says and what YOU say.

So I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

Kindly get over yourself.

I see you're incapable of an original thought.

 

[BJ Bear]

Well, I see "the radical difference" between what Scripture says and what YOU say.

The difference is I can actually point to the markings on the page and demonstrate what it says according to the God-given perfect immediate context. On the other hand, you are asserting inferences based upon out of context passage trumpery.

So I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree.



I see you're incapable of an original thought.

A well catechized disciple echoes the word of God. A person making a point sometimes echoes the words of the person he is communicating with.

 

[Theo1689]

The difference is I can actually point to the markings on the page and demonstrate what it says according to the God-given perfect immediate context. On the other hand, you are asserting inferences based upon out of context passage trumpery.

<Chuckle>

You actually think insulting me is going to change my mind?
How naive...

A well catechized disciple echoes the word of God.

Amen!
You should try it sometime.

A person making a point sometimes echoes the words of the person he is communicating with.

Yeah, you should totally stop doing that.

 

[Our Lord's God]

The difference is I can actually point to the markings on the page and demonstrate what it says according to the God-given perfect immediate context. On the other hand, you are asserting inferences based upon out of context passage trumpery.

A well catechized disciple echoes the word of God. A person making a point sometimes echoes the words of the person he is communicating with.

Catechized by who? God or men?

 

[BJ Bear]

<Chuckle>

You actually think insulting me is going to change my mind?
How naive...

Who is insulting you? Are you saying that you don't override what a passage says in the immediate context because of an inference you make from another passage that you think is of a more weightier matter or of greater significance?

Can you say with a true heart and full assurance that baptism does now save you through the resurrecton of Christ AND a man is justified alone by faith apart from works of a law? I can and do.

Amen!
You should try it sometime.

Demonstrated above.

Yeah, you should totally stop doing that.

Does that mean your words and expressions are only appropriate when you use them?

 

[BJ Bear]

Catechized by who? God or men?

The Holy Spirit is the best teacher. A not good teacher is one who says, "Well, Scripture does say that, but it doesn't really mean that because over here it says something else."

That not good teacher is making the Holy Spirit the pupil because the right context isn't the Holy Spirit given immediate context but is instead the misguided context imagined by the not good teacher.

 

[Our Lord's God]

The Holy Spirit is the best teacher. A not good teacher is one who says, "Well, Scripture does say that, but it doesn't really mean that because over here it says something else."

That not good teacher is making the Holy Spirit the pupil because the right context isn't the Holy Spirit given immediate context but is instead the misguided context imagined by the not good teacher.

Most are taught by their own personal desires. How about you?

 

[Theo1689]

Who is insulting you?

You are.
(Since you asked...)

Are you saying that you don't override what a passage says in the immediate context because of an inference you make from another passage that you think is of a more weightier matter or of greater significance?

Yep.
But stop trying to put this on me.
The burden is on YOU to prove that YOUR beliefs are true.

I'm not interested in trying to change anyone's mind.
I have no ego.
I'm perfectly secure in my beliefs, unlike you.

Can you say with a true heart and full assurance that baptism does now save you through the resurrecton of Christ AND a man is justified alone by faith apart from works of a law? I can and do.

If you are speaking of water baptism, then your claim is 100% false.

Does that mean your words and expressions are only appropriate when you use them?

You have difficulty playing nicely with others, don't you?

 

[BJ Bear]

Most are taught by their own personal desires. How about you?

When it comes to Scripture the first thing I want to know is what does it say according to it's God given perfect immediate context? When I am sure of what it says then and only then do I ask what does it mean?

That's the order because you can't know what it means until you know what it says.

 

[Our Lord's God]

When it comes to Scripture the first thing I want to know is what does it say according to it's God given perfect immediate context? When I am sure of what it says then and only then do I ask what does it mean?

That's the order because you can't know what it means until you know what it says.

... unless your personal desires take over?

 

[BJ Bear]

You are.
(Since you asked...)



Yep.
But stop trying to put this on me.
The burden is on YOU to prove that YOUR beliefs are true.

Well, that method of interpretation seems to be on display again below. Scripture says baptism does now save you the resurrection of Christ and your response is, "If you are speaking of water baptism..." The Holy Spirit is the best teacher, therefore, a faithful witness says what He says through the writers of Scripture in the context in which He led them to write rather than try and qualify that context with an out of context idea.

If someone echoes Scripture according to it's God given perfect immediate context then it is necessarily true even if YOU don't believe it.

I'm not interested in trying to change anyone's mind.
I have no ego.
I'm perfectly secure in my beliefs, unlike you.

Christians are called to be faithful witnesses rather than to project their own insecurities regarding their beliefs upon others, right?

If you are speaking of water baptism, then your claim is 100% false.

Reading things into Scripture isn't helpful or correct.

You have difficulty playing nicely with others, don't you?

I'm just re-presenting your words and expressions which you seem to think are appropriate only when you use them because you characterize them in negative ways when they are returned to you. Is that negative characterization of them when others use them a symptom of not playing nicely with others?

 

[Theo1689]

Well, that method of interpretation seems to be on display again below.

If you want to attack my methodology because you reject the Bible, that's on you.
As for me, I couldn't care less about your opinion or your insults.

Scripture says baptism does now save you the resurrection of Christ and your response is, "If you are speaking of water baptism..." The Holy Spirit is the best teacher, therefore, a faithful witness says what He says through the writers of Scripture in the context in which He led them to write rather than try and qualify that context with an out of context idea.

The fact REMAINS (that you keep IGNORING) is that your proof-text not only does NOT mention "water baptism", but it explicitly DENIES being about water baptism.

If someone echoes Scripture according to it's God given perfect immediate context then it is necessarily true even if YOU don't believe it.

Right back at ya, Sparky....
Thanks for the insult, but you really should take your own advice.

Christians are called to be faithful witnesses rather than to project their own insecurities regarding their beliefs upon others, right?

You should try it sometime.

Reading things into Scripture isn't helpful or correct.

Then stop doing it.

I'm just re-presenting your words and expressions which you seem to think are appropriate only when you use them because you characterize them in negative ways when they are returned to you. Is that negative characterization of them when others use them a symptom of not playing nicely with others?

If you think insulting me is going to get me to agree with your anti-Biblical view, you better think again.

 

[BJ Bear]

... unless your personal desires take over?

The facts of the faith don't change.

 

[Our Lord's God]

The facts of the faith don't change.

Truth really doesn't care what you want to be true does it?

 

[BJ Bear]

If you want to attack my methodology because you reject the Bible, that's on you.
As for me, I couldn't care less about your opinion or your insults.



The fact REMAINS (that you keep IGNORING) is that your proof-text not only does NOT mention "water baptism", but it explicitly DENIES being about water baptism.



Right back at ya, Sparky....
Thanks for the insult, but you really should take your own advice.



You should try it sometime.



Then stop doing it.



If you think insulting me is going to get me to agree with your anti-Biblical view, you better think again.

Instead of claiming that you are being insulted by my description of your method of interpretation not being accurate demonstrate that your method of interpretation is contrary to it.

A case in point is again above. Scripture says baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ. You are the one reading "water baptism" into the passage and then concluding that it denies what you've read into the passage.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Instead of claiming that you are being insulted by my description of your method of interpretation not being accurate demonstrate that your method of interpretation is contrary to it.

A case in point is again above. Scripture says baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ. You are the one reading "water baptism" into the passage and then concluding that it denies what you've read into the passage.

The passage is about WATER.

 

[Theo1689]

Instead of claiming that you are being insulted by my description of your method of interpretation not being accurate demonstrate that your method of interpretation is contrary to it.

Why do I need to waste my time doing something simply because you feel the need to misrepresent me?

You seem to have major "control" issues.
Why are you trying to control me, and trying to tell me what to do?
Get over yourself.

You have a wrong understanding of baptism.
You refuse to see the truth.
But that's okay.
I can live without you agreeing with me.

But you seem to be so insecure in your beliefs that you are uncomfortable unless everyone agrees with you. That's your problem, not mine.

A case in point is again above. Scripture says baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.

Yes, it does.

You are the one reading "water baptism" into the passage and then concluding that it denies what you've read into the passage.

So you're admitting that your passage is NOT about "water baptism".
That's progress.
Congratulations!

 

[Our Lord's God]

Why do I need to waste my time doing something simply because you feel the need to misrepresent me?

You seem to have major "control" issues.
Why are you trying to control me, and trying to tell me what to do?
Get over yourself.

You have a wrong understanding of baptism.
You refuse to see the truth.
But that's okay.
I can live without you agreeing with me.

But you seem to be so insecure in your beliefs that you are uncomfortable unless everyone agrees with you. That's your problem, not mine.



Yes, it does.



So you're admitting that your passage is NOT about "water baptism".
That's progress.
Congratulations!

I really need to stop clicking on your posts. They all have this same flavour.

 

[BJ Bear]

Truth really doesn't care what you want to be true does it?

Not being a smart aleck but it depends how a person means truth. Jesus cares and wants all to believe that He is the way, the truth, and the life; and that no one comes to the Father but by Him.

 

[Theo1689]

Not being a smart aleck but it depends how a person means truth. Jesus cares and wants all to believe that He is the way, the truth, and the life; and that no one comes to the Father but by Him.

It's not wise to make silly claims that the Bible never teaches.