Does it prove that apostoles preached baptism for salvation?

[Our Lord's God]

It's not wise to make silly claims that the Bible never teaches.

28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[BJ Bear]

Why do I need to waste my time doing something simply because you feel the need to misrepresent me?

You seem to have major "control" issues.
Why are you trying to control me, and trying to tell me what to do?
Get over yourself.

You have a wrong understanding of baptism.
You refuse to see the truth.
But that's okay.
I can live without you agreeing with me.

But you seem to be so insecure in your beliefs that you are uncomfortable unless everyone agrees with you. That's your problem, not mine.

I would say, "Right back at you, Sparky," but you might take offense at that also.

Yes, it does.



So you're admitting that your passage is NOT about "water baptism".
That's progress.
Congratulations!

Wow, that reading into things function is working overtime. First you read "water baptism" into the passage, then say it denies what you've read into the passage, and now you say that it is progress that I agree "water baptism" is not what the passage is about. Amazing, simply amazing!

Well, too bad there is no such thing as, "water baptism." John saying I baptize with water in contrast to Jesus who will baptize with the Holy Spirit leaves the constant baptize. As we all should know, John's baptism included the Holy Spirit rather than excluded it. The most obvious example of the Spirit at work in his baptism is at the baptism of Jesus. It is a gross error to read "water baptism" into Scripture.

The sum is that the method the Lord has given men to baptize is with water that bestows the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Lord from whom the Holy Spirit proceeds is not bound to that method of baptizing with water to bestow the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Our Lord's God]

I would say, "Right back at you, Sparky," but you might take offense at that also.

Wow, that reading into things function is working overtime. First you read "water baptism" into the passage, then say it denies what you've read into the passage, and now you say that it is progress that I agree "water baptism" is not what the passage is about. Amazing, simply amazing!

Well, too bad there is no such thing as, "water baptism." John saying I baptize with water in contrast to Jesus who will baptize with the Holy Spirit leaves the constant baptize. As we all should know, John's baptism included the Holy Spirit rather than excluded it.

NO. Really big NO. John did not baptize in the Holy Spirit.

Moreover........

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Acts 19

The purpose of John's baptism pertained to the death of the King of Israel who is the representative Head of all his people.

Spirit baptism pertains to the life of the risen Christ.

The most obvious example of the Spirit at work in his baptism is at the baptism of Jesus. It is a gross error to read "water baptism" into Scripture.

Peter is obviously referring to WATER baptism. Why is that not obvious to you?

The sum is that the method the Lord has given men to baptize is with water that bestows the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Lord from whom the Holy Spirit proceeds is not bound to that method of baptizing with water to bestow the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BJ Bear]

It's not wise to make silly claims that the Bible never teaches.

Have you never read the following? Are you going to give a demonstration of how you don't read things into and out of the text?

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. -KJV

 

[BJ Bear]

28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

Who isn't weary and heavy laden? Where is the, "except you guys," that would need to be appended at the end to necessarily exclude some from those who are weary and heavy laden by sin and its effects and consequences?

 

[Theo1689]

The sum is that the method the Lord has given men to baptize is with water that bestows the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Lord from whom the Holy Spirit proceeds is not bound to that method of baptizing with water to bestow the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I'm sorry that you don't understand Scripture.
The fact is that we are given the Holy Spirit first, which DRAWS us to be baptized.
I believe Scripture over you.

 

[Our Lord's God]

I'm sorry that you don't understand Scripture.
The fact is that we are given the Holy Spirit first, which DRAWS us to be baptized.

Man made myth based upon a gross distortion of John 6:44-45.

I believe Scripture over you.

 

[Theo1689]

Have you never read the following?

Thank you for the insult.
I've read the entire Bible, MANY times over.
And I've had the "baptism" debate hundreds of times.

You're still wrong.

Are you going to give a demonstration of how you don't read things into and out of the text?

I don't think I need to waste my time "demonstrating" anything to someone who refuses to learn, and who only feels the "entitlement" to make false accusations against others.

You will have to answer to God for your false teachings, your false accusations, and your insults.
That's on you.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Thank you for the insult.
I've read the entire Bible, MANY times over.
And I've had the "baptism" debate hundreds of times.

You're still wrong.



I don't think I need to waste my time "demonstrating" anything to someone who refuses to learn, and who only feels the "entitlement" to make false accusations against others.

You will have to answer to God for your false teachings, your false accusations, and your insults.
That's on you.

And He won't be judging based on your personal desires or according to your personal desires, will He? What you personally desire to be true will be completely irrelevant.

 

[BJ Bear]

NO. Really big NO. John did not baptize in the Holy Spirit.

So you say, but I don't see any evidence below why that claim is necessarily true.

Moreover........

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Acts 19

It is a given that they thought and claimed that they received John's baptism. However, that they say they hadn't heard that there is a Holy Spirit makes it doubtful. The Holy Spirit was integral to John's preaching and baptism. Perhaps you've noticed that Nicodemus didn't balk at Jesus referring to the Holy Spirit in John 3? The we in Jesus' statement of we speak of what we know, etc., includes John. There is more direct evidence but that section of Scripture immediately comes to mind.

The purpose of John's baptism pertained to the death of the King of Israel who is the representative Head of all his people.

The stated purpose with regard to the baptism of Jesus is that He be known in His baptism through the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, see John 1, and to fulfill all righteousness

Spirit baptism pertains to the life of the risen Christ.

The Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. A method which the Lord God has given to the baptized body of Christ to extend the gift of the Holy Spirit is to baptize with water.

Peter is obviously referring to WATER baptism. Why is that not obvious to you?

Because there is no such thing as, "water baptism," in Scripture. "Water baptism," is a term being read into Scripture by some.

 

[BJ Bear]

Thank you for the insult.
I've read the entire Bible, MANY times over.
And I've had the "baptism" debate hundreds of times.

You're still wrong.



I don't think I need to waste my time "demonstrating" anything to someone who refuses to learn, and who only feels the "entitlement" to make false accusations against others.

You will have to answer to God for your false teachings, your false accusations, and your insults.
That's on you.

In your words, "Right back at you!" Except God's word according to it's God given perfect immediate context should be read and taken to heart. Therefore, I will continue to echo His word in that context.

 

[BJ Bear]

And He won't be judging based on your personal desires or according to your personal desires, will He? What you personally desire to be true will be completely irrelevant.

The Lord will neither deny Himself or His word.

 

[BJ Bear]

I'm sorry that you don't understand Scripture.
The fact is that we are given the Holy Spirit first, which DRAWS us to be baptized.
I believe Scripture over you.

"I'm sorry that you don't understand Scripture." What you claim isn't necessarily true and even if it were one doesn't necessarily exclude the other according to Scripture.
"I believe Scripture over you."

 

[BJ Bear]

The passage is about WATER.

That section of Scripture is a type/antitype of salvation from the judgement of God through the judgement of God. In the type eight were physically saved from God's judgement of death by water on account of sin through water. In the antitype people are saved eternally from God's judgement of death on account of sin by baptism through the resurrection of Christ (The One who was judged and raised for our justification).

People may be tempted to say "water baptism" or that baptism doesn't save, but saying either is to deny what it actually says.

 

[Our Lord's God]

That section of Scripture is a type/antitype of salvation from the judgement of God through the judgement of God. In the type eight were physically saved from God's judgement of death by water on account of sin through water. In the antitype people are saved eternally from God's judgement of death on account of sin by baptism through the resurrection of Christ (The One who was judged and raised for our justification).

People may be tempted to say "water baptism" or that baptism doesn't save, but saying either is to deny what it actually says.

Need some help with your reading comprehension?

who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

 

[Theo1689]

"I'm sorry that you don't understand Scripture." What you claim isn't necessarily true and even if it were one doesn't necessarily exclude the other according to Scripture.
"I believe Scripture over you."

Again you demonstrate that you don't have an original thought in your head, and you just blindly repeat what others say. No wonder you believe what you do about baptism.

Look, this "exchange" is getting nowhere, so I don't understand why you feel the need to continue it. You have a position, you've tried to convince me, and you failed miserably. You can't say the same thing about me, since I never TRIED to convince you of my view, I have no need to, and I don't see the point in wasting my time.

God bless.

 

[ziapueblo]

Cultists always use deceptive tactics like a double negative, which is basically an argument from silence.

I was wondering when I was going to be called a cultist!

Clearly you've never read the Bible.

Of course I haven't! I'm making all this up just to get a rouse out of people

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Nothing there about "water baptism" being "necessary".

What other baptism is there

You might want to read ALL of Paul's writings.... You know, Eph. 2:8-9, Tit. 3:5, 2 Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc. etc.?

I'm Orthodox my friend. We read St. Paul's epistles in our Liturgical services during the Liturgical year

As a matter of fact, from today's Vesperal Liturgy of Holy and Great Saturday:

Romans 6:3-11

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Just thought I'd post the whole text for fun!

 

[Theo1689]

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Did you see the three words you bolded?
The verse doesn't stop there.
Try reading the next nine words after the words you bolded.

What other baptism is there

Baptism of the Spirit.
I guess you've never read the gospels, either...

I'm Orthodox my friend. We read St. Paul's epistles in our Liturgical services during the Liturgical year

Then try paying better attention.

Just thought I'd post the whole text for fun!

Yeah, I kind of figured you don't take theology seriously, and only post here "for fun".

 

[Our Lord's God]

Did you see the three words you bolded?
The verse doesn't stop there.
Try reading the next nine words after the words you bolded.

You mean where Peter nullified his own words "baptism now saves you"?

Baptism of the Spirit.
I guess you've never read the gospels, either...



Then try paying better attention.



Yeah, I kind of figured you don't take theology seriously, and only post here "for fun".

 

[ziapueblo]

Did you see the three words you bolded?
The verse doesn't stop there.
Try reading the next nine words after the words you bolded.

Of course, "not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

Baptism does not mearly remove dirt, it is regenerative, as St. Paul wrote to Titus, "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

Baptism of the Spirit.
I guess you've never read the gospels, either...

Oh my friend, not only do I listen to them during our Liturgical services, but believe it or not, I'm part of a group at my Church that does a Bible study of the Sunday readings 😮 as well as my own personal reading of Scripture.

Thanks for the Christian charity

Then try paying better attention.

you are too funny!

Yeah, I kind of figured you don't take theology seriously, and only post here "for fun".

We are not all like you Theo