Does man have the power to limit the work of God?

[Carbon]

I believe the answer to the topic is- NO!
Not in any way, shape or form.
Our God does as He pleases and is not subject to man or any molecule in the universe.

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Psalm 115:3.

I would hope all those who call themselves a believer would agree?
And if all you believers agree, I say nonsense, a lot of you do not believe this.

I have been observing a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit and how He would not enter into a lost sinner because He wouldn’t look on sin. He wouldn’t dwell in a sinful tabernacle, etc... etc…

And some think they have a good argument in this, saying one has to believe before the Holy Spirit will enter and dwell in a person.

I say your wrong! Those people are seriously wrong!

These people with say and teach, the natural spiritually dead man who can not appraise the things of the spirit, who is at enmity with God just has to be persuaded by prevenient grace and to hear the gospel and willingly of their free will make a decision to believe. Yes, they teach Jesus stands at the door and knocks, all we have to do is accept His invitation and open the door and ask him into our heart. Because the Spirit cannot enter without permission, He must wait to be accepted and invited.
Who is the real god here? Man of course.

Men have God at bay, He won’t look on sin and therefore will not enter a sinner.
What a bunch of unbiblical nonsense!


Job 34:14-15,
ESV-If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,
all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.


NIV-If it were his intention
and he withdrew his spirit and breath,
all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust.

The Holy Spirit is in all places at once. He sustains everything in the universe. He is in every life to one measure or another. Even the rocks in your yard would cease to exist if to some degree the Holy Spirit wasn’t in it sustaining it.

Even the devil himself would cease to exist if he wasn’t sustained by the Holy Spirit. Who is more sinful and more evil than Satan?


Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Ps 115:3

The Holy Spirit is not intimidated by man or any other being.
There is no issue with the Holy Spirit indwelling a lost sinner and regenerating him restoring life into him, giving him a new heart and the gift of faith.

Humanism don’t mix with God’s word. You have no argument against the word.

 

[Carbon]

I believe the answer to the topic is- NO!
Not in any way, shape or form.
Our God does as He pleases and is not subject to man or any molecule in the universe.

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Psalm 115:3.

I would hope all those who call themselves a believer would agree?
And if all you believers agree, I say nonsense, a lot of you do not believe this.

I have been observing a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit and how He would not enter into a lost sinner because He wouldn’t look on sin. He wouldn’t dwell in a sinful tabernacle, etc... etc…

And some think they have a good argument in this, saying one has to believe before the Holy Spirit will enter and dwell in a person.

I say your wrong! Those people are seriously wrong!

These people with say and teach, the natural spiritually dead man who can not appraise the things of the spirit, who is at enmity with God just has to be persuaded by prevenient grace and to hear the gospel and willingly of their free will make a decision to believe. Yes, they teach Jesus stands at the door and knocks, all we have to do is accept His invitation and open the door and ask him into our heart. Because the Spirit cannot enter without permission, He must wait to be accepted and invited.
Who is the real god here? Man of course.

Men have God at bay, He won’t look on sin and therefore will not enter a sinner.
What a bunch of unbiblical nonsense!


Job 34:14-15,
ESV-If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,
all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.


NIV-If it were his intention
and he withdrew his spirit and breath,
all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust.(

The Holy Spirit is in all places at once. He sustains everything in the universe. He is in every life to one measure or another. Even the rocks in your yard would cease to exist if to some degree the Holy Spirit wasn’t in it sustaining it.

Even the devil himself would cease to exist if he wasn’t sustained by the Holy Spirit. Who is more sinful and more evil than Satan?


Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Ps 115:3

The Holy Spirit is not intimidated by man or any other being.
There is no issue with the Holy Spirit indwelling a lost sinner and regenerating him restoring life into him, giving him a new heart and the gift of faith.

Humanism don’t mix with God’s word. You have no argument against the word.

When you see this and begin to understand it, you’ll have no issue understanding this verse:

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe

 

[SovereignGrace]

“Does man have the power to limit the work of God?”​

No

 

[Predestined]

Job 7 “Can you find out the deep things of God?
Can you find out the limit of the Almighty?
8 It is higher than heaven—what can you do?
Deeper than Sheol—what can you know?
9 Its measure is longer than the earth,
and broader than the sea.

Does man have the power to limit the work of God. NO Give it a try and Right let me know it works for ya
Makes me think of Don Quixote and the windmill

They come across a field of windmills, which Don Quixote sees as a group of giants. He tells Sancho he is going to slay them and take their riches. Sancho tells him they are not giants but windmills. Don Quixote retorts that Sancho is not experienced in these matters, and that is why he can’t see that they are clearly giants.

In connection with the general operations of the Holy Spirit the subject of common grace also calls for attention. It should be understood, however, that Reformed theology does not, like Arminian theology, regard the doctrine of common grace as a part of Soteriology. At the same time it does recognize a close connection between the operations of the Holy Spirit in the sphere of creation and in that of redemption, and therefore feels that they should not be entirely dissociated. -L. BERKHOF

 

[Predestined]

Calvinism (Irresistible Grace)

1. The Holy Spirit applies salvation to the elect by His calling and regenerating work.
2. The Holy Spirit grants repentance and faith as God-given gifts in the souls of the elect.
3. In addition to His outward call, the Holy Spirit works His inward, irresistible call in the hearts of the elect.
4. The Holy Spirit’s saving application is accomplished by His divine, almighty power.
5. The Holy Spirit grants regeneration unto faith; regeneration precedes faith.

To deny the irresistibility of God’s saving grace is to say that God can be resisted, against His will, by mere man. The Scriptures teach us that no one can thwart God’s will (Eph. 1:11) or stop His hand (Dan. 4:35), and the electing God is the calling God (Rom. 8:29–30). Thus, salvation is monergistic grace (Eph. 2:1–10); it is not a work that we accomplish in whole or even in part (2 Tim. 1:9). It is not a joint venture between the Holy Spirit and us; we do not even cooperate in bringing about our salvation. The elect are not born again because they believe; rather, they believe because they are born again by the Spirit of God (1 John 5:1). That is why the believer confesses:

I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew
He moved my soul to seek Him, seeking me;
It was not I that found, O Savior true,
No, I was found of Thee.

A rather legalistic Christian once criticized another Christian’s testimony, saying: “I appreciated all you said about what God did for you. But you didn’t mention anything about your part in it.”
“Oh yes,” the other Christian said. “I apologize for that. I really should have said that my part was running away, and His part was running after me until He caught me.”
From JOEL R. BEEKE An introduction to Calvinism

 

[Carbon]

That is why the believer confesses:

I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew
He moved my soul to seek Him, seeking me;
It was not I that found, O Savior true,
No, I was found of Thee.

Amen!

A rather legalistic Christian once criticized another Christian’s testimony, saying: “I appreciated all you said about what God did for you. But you didn’t mention anything about your part in it.”
“Oh yes,” the other Christian said. “I apologize for that. I really should have said that my part was running away, and His part was running after me until He caught me.”
From JOEL R. BEEKE An introduction to Calvinism

The flesh always has to have a part.

And to think the flesh must do it’s part first before God does His is unbiblical.

Scripture does not teach anywhere that at the fall when man fell, he also had a blocker that God could not pass. Sin.

What man desires is to be his own master. And so many feed this master.
Man is not on equal ground with God. He does not need man’s permission to do anything.

 

[TibiasDad]

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Psalm 115:3.

And it pleased God to give man his own image, which includes sovereign volition. (Gen 1:26-27, 2:16,19-20)

Man cannot limit the power of God except by the sovereignty of God choosing to allow him to do so!

Heb 10:7...“Today, if you hear his voice, 8do not harden your heartsas you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, 9where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did.

10That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’ 11So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Doug

 

[Predestined]

How would you categorize verses such as ..

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mar 6:5 And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marveled because of their unbelief. And he went about among the villages teaching

Where an atmosphere of unbelief makes it difficult to believe, we should seek a different setting. Even Jesus’ ability to work miracles was reduced where unbelief prevailed.

 

[ReverendRV]

How would you categorize verses such as ..

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mar 6:5 And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marveled because of their unbelief. And he went about among the villages teaching

I would Categorize these people as those who were Graceless. Can the Graceless stop the Hand of God?

Grace prevenes Faith; this is a Fundamental; so no one can stop the Hand of God, since Grace can't be stopped...

 

[Sethproton]

I believe the answer to the topic is- NO!
Not in any way, shape or form.
Our God does as He pleases and is not subject to man or any molecule in the universe.

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Psalm 115:3.

I would hope all those who call themselves a believer would agree?
And if all you believers agree, I say nonsense, a lot of you do not believe this.

I have been observing a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit and how He would not enter into a lost sinner because He wouldn’t look on sin. He wouldn’t dwell in a sinful tabernacle, etc... etc…

And some think they have a good argument in this, saying one has to believe before the Holy Spirit will enter and dwell in a person.

I say your wrong! Those people are seriously wrong!

These people with say and teach, the natural spiritually dead man who can not appraise the things of the spirit, who is at enmity with God just has to be persuaded by prevenient grace and to hear the gospel and willingly of their free will make a decision to believe. Yes, they teach Jesus stands at the door and knocks, all we have to do is accept His invitation and open the door and ask him into our heart. Because the Spirit cannot enter without permission, He must wait to be accepted and invited.
Who is the real god here? Man of course.

Men have God at bay, He won’t look on sin and therefore will not enter a sinner.
What a bunch of unbiblical nonsense!


Job 34:14-15,
ESV-If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,
all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.


NIV-If it were his intention
and he withdrew his spirit and breath,
all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust.

The Holy Spirit is in all places at once. He sustains everything in the universe. He is in every life to one measure or another. Even the rocks in your yard would cease to exist if to some degree the Holy Spirit wasn’t in it sustaining it.

Even the devil himself would cease to exist if he wasn’t sustained by the Holy Spirit. Who is more sinful and more evil than Satan?


Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Ps 115:3

The Holy Spirit is not intimidated by man or any other being.
There is no issue with the Holy Spirit indwelling a lost sinner and regenerating him restoring life into him, giving him a new heart and the gift of faith.

Humanism don’t mix with God’s word. You have no argument against the word.

Brother, have you considered the idea that God chooses what He wants to control? We all agree that we cannot overpower God, but if God designed the world and the people in it to be able to respond and choose, His normal approach would not be to stifle that.
God is still sovereign when He allows people free will. Nothing we can choose to do overpowers God.

 

[Theo1689]

Brother, have you considered the idea that God chooses what He wants to control?

Yes.
God chooses to control EVERYTHING.
Who are you to say that He can't?

We all agree that we cannot overpower God, but if God designed the world and the people in it to be able to respond and choose, His normal approach would not be to stifle that.

Fallacious argumentation: Begging the question.
False premise.

God is still sovereign when He allows people free will.

"Free will" is unBiblical.
Always has been.
Always will be.

Nothing we can choose to do overpowers God.

Nothing but worthless word salad.

 

[Carbon]

I believe the answer to the topic is- NO!
Not in any way, shape or form.
Our God does as He pleases and is not subject to man or any molecule in the universe.

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Psalm 115:3.

I would hope all those who call themselves a believer would agree?
And if all you believers agree, I say nonsense, a lot of you do not believe this.

I have been observing a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit and how He would not enter into a lost sinner because He wouldn’t look on sin. He wouldn’t dwell in a sinful tabernacle, etc... etc…

And some think they have a good argument in this, saying one has to believe before the Holy Spirit will enter and dwell in a person.

I say your wrong! Those people are seriously wrong!

These people with say and teach, the natural spiritually dead man who can not appraise the things of the spirit, who is at enmity with God just has to be persuaded by prevenient grace and to hear the gospel and willingly of their free will make a decision to believe. Yes, they teach Jesus stands at the door and knocks, all we have to do is accept His invitation and open the door and ask him into our heart. Because the Spirit cannot enter without permission, He must wait to be accepted and invited.
Who is the real god here? Man of course.

Men have God at bay, He won’t look on sin and therefore will not enter a sinner.
What a bunch of unbiblical nonsense!


Job 34:14-15,
ESV-If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,
all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.


NIV-If it were his intention
and he withdrew his spirit and breath,
all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust.

The Holy Spirit is in all places at once. He sustains everything in the universe. He is in every life to one measure or another. Even the rocks in your yard would cease to exist if to some degree the Holy Spirit wasn’t in it sustaining it.

Even the devil himself would cease to exist if he wasn’t sustained by the Holy Spirit. Who is more sinful and more evil than Satan?


Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases. Ps 115:3

The Holy Spirit is not intimidated by man or any other being.
There is no issue with the Holy Spirit indwelling a lost sinner and regenerating him restoring life into him, giving him a new heart and the gift of faith.

Humanism don’t mix with God’s word. You have no argument against the word.

Another scripture which teaches the Spirit does idwell sinners is the story about Lydia.

One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us. Acts 16.

The Lord opened her heart.
Notice it does not say, the Lord knocked at the door? But instead, without her permission or invitation, He opened her heart.

 

[Carbon]

And it pleased God to give man his own image, which includes sovereign volition. (Gen 1:26-27, 2:16,19-20)

Man cannot limit the power of God except by the sovereignty of God choosing to allow him to do so!

Could clarify? I don’t see God giving Adam sovereign free will in naming the animals etc…
Who not everything else in existence?
Because Gid allowed him to do this he has sovereign free will? You have to do better than that Doug.

Heb 10:7...“Today, if you hear his voice, 8do not harden your heartsas you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, 9where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did.

10That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’ 11So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Doug

Curious before I reply. What do you believe God’s rest is?

 

[Carbon]

How would you categorize verses such as ..

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mar 6:5 And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marveled because of their unbelief. And he went about among the villages teaching

Great questions. And I appreciate your replies.
later when I am home I’ll reply.

 

[Carbon]

Brother, have you considered the idea that God chooses what He wants to control? We all agree that we cannot overpower God, but if God designed the world and the people in it to be able to respond and choose, His normal approach would not be to stifle that.
God is still sovereign when He allows people free will. Nothing we can choose to do overpowers God.

Great question Seth. But yes, I have considered that, that’s one of the things I’ve wrestled with.
But I can’t get to involved at the moment, I’m at work and decided to take a peek for now.

I’ll reply later.

 

[Carbon]

To be clear. I am not saying that God's power can be circumvented or extinguished. Just that God, Himself, chooses not to operate under certain circumstances. I'm just exploring this scenario.

This would go along with my reply.

 

[Terry43]

Where an atmosphere of unbelief makes it difficult to believe, we should seek a different setting. Even Jesus’ ability to work miracles was reduced where unbelief prevailed.

Reduced or withheld?

 

[Carbon]

Reduced or withheld?

I’d say withheld

 

[Terry43]

Agreed.



It would seem they could in this instance. It seems as if these verses present an scenario wherein Jesus could have done more if these condition had not prevented Him.

To be clear. I am not saying that God's power can be circumvented or extinguished. Just that God, Himself, chooses not to operate under certain circumstances. I'm just exploring this scenario.




Grace was in their presence. Thusly, Grace is established within the context of these verses.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Because God knows all lthings He knows what will result of withholding His intervention ...so His non action is an action

 

[Predestined]

Reduced or withheld?

That is a very interesting point you brought up. And I'm inclined to agree with Carbon "Withheld".