Truth7t7
Well-known member
I believe the OT saints were saved just as NTsaints, by faith, same Holy Spirit
Does, or can, our eschatological beliefs have an effect on our soteriology?
- Thread starter Carbon
- Start date
Truth7t7
Well-known member
I agree, I'm fully aware of Dispensationalism's teachings in dual covenant theology
Old school displays went so far as to teach, Israel had a different path into the kingdom, bypassing the cross, John Hagee is one of them
G
guest1
Guest
Hagee is a false teacher and not because of his eschatology.
Truth7t7
Well-known member
Yes Scofield created a reference bible in 1909 with Darby's notes in the margins, yes this book was the greatest world influence in planting dispensationalism in the minds of the world, with millions of copies sold
Yes Scofield abandoned his wife and two daughters in Kansas, divorced her and ran of with and married the young sunday school girl Hettie Van Wart (Adultery)
Yes Scofield and Hettie created the reference bible whole actively in the sin of (Adultery)
Yes Scofield died in 1921 while being married to Hettie while his wife Leotine lived (Adultery)
Yes Dallas Theological Seminary is a prodigy of Scofield, as Lewis S. Chafer was Scofields disciple
Yes the very foundations of Dispensationalism in America is surrounded by (Adultery)
You are still referencing what the situation was at that time and ignoring what was to come afterOnce again Israel as a Nation wont recognize Jesus as their Messiah as you claim, they wont obtain salvation, God has given then a spirit if slumber, eyes and ears that are closed
Scripture teaches National Israel wont be saved, "Israel Hath Not Obtained"
God has given Israel a spirit of slumber, with closed eyes and ears, they dont obtain salvation
Only the Remnant Elect Jew, those who God foreknew will be saved, and when they obtain salvation they become the "Church", that's as simple as it gets
Romans 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hearunto this day.
Romans 11:23-32 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
G
guest1
Guest
And Moses and David were murderers / adulterous .
Throw out your Old Testament ?
Any more strawman today ?
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preacher4truth
Well-known member
Free Grace Theology (DTS) is a trainwreck and is repackaged Antinomianism. Chafer came up with the teaching of the false dichotomy of believer and disciple, furthering the thought that a "believer" can live a sinful carnal lifestyle and fully expect to enter into eternal life. Disciples are merely "better Christians."
I don't know about all that but I do know it has serious issues. I'm pretty certain John Darby systematized it prior to Scofield.
Carbon
Super Member
Indeed! By faith in the coming Messiah.
Carbon
Super Member
This is where dispensationalism fogs their vision.Once again Israel as a Nation wont recognize Jesus as their Messiah as you claim, they wont obtain salvation, God has given then a spirit if slumber, eyes and ears that are closed
Scripture teaches National Israel wont be saved, "Israel Hath Not Obtained"
God has given Israel a spirit of slumber, with closed eyes and ears, they dont obtain salvation
Only the Remnant Elect Jew, those who God foreknew will be saved, and when they obtain salvation they become the "Church", that's as simple as it gets
Romans 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
Carbon
Super Member
Yes, many argued that salvation was by works in the OT. Coventry theology argues man has always been saved by grace since the fall. No one was ever saved by works.
Hagee was a wack job. No discernment of course. He would naturally latch onto the dipsy belief
G
guest1
Guest
Ah the bloodbaths under the reformation
Let’s have a stone fight for the worst sinners ?????
Oh the irony and selective memory of some who place their trust in sinful men
Sola What ?
Definitely not Scriptura ???
They even promote ad hominem attacks upon the dead ?
Yikes how low can you go ?
Covenant theologians are the worst offenders and their followers are blinded to their roots .
Blind Pharisees leading the blind forgetting what they look like in the mirror.
Your history is condemning .
Oops
Next
Let’s have a stone fight for the worst sinners ?????
Oh the irony and selective memory of some who place their trust in sinful men
Sola What ?
Definitely not Scriptura ???
They even promote ad hominem attacks upon the dead ?
Yikes how low can you go ?
Covenant theologians are the worst offenders and their followers are blinded to their roots .
Blind Pharisees leading the blind forgetting what they look like in the mirror.
Your history is condemning .
Oops
Next
G
guest1
Guest
The thread is nothing short of the mockers in the last days having itchy ears ??
One does not have to be a dispensationalist to see
Romans 11:23-32 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
future salvation for Israel
but not separate from the one body
Carbon
Super Member
Then why are you here?
???
Truth7t7
Well-known member
I didnt ignore a thing, National Israel isnt gonna obtain salvation, it's that simple!
Only the Remnant elect Jew will obtain salvation and be "Added" to the Church on earth
Keep posting, and I'll keep responding, it ain't gonna change
I think you did
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Truth7t7
Well-known member
I never stated Darby was before Scofield
Scofield's 1909 reference bible spread the cancer 100 times quicker than Darby's conferences, millions of copies were sold around the western world
Truth7t7
Well-known member
I Didn't Miss A Thing, Perhaps You Missed Post #1121
All Israel will be saved, when the last Soul is added to the Church on earth, then all Israel will be saved
The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed
Gods words clearly shows (Two Israel's) below
1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)
2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)
Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple
Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Yes the Kingdom of God has been taken from National Ethnic Israel, And Given To The Church, a "Holy Nation" as clearly seen below
Matthew 21:43KJV
3 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Wow, this adds nothing to the discussion other than taunting, ridicule, mockery. Reminds me of the same behavior that was in this thread towards those who exposed the errors of the OP. The onslaught, ganging up, name-calling there was ridiculous after showing the error on Romans 1.
eternomade
Well-known member
I agree that the free grace theology is no good, because I believe grace is sovereign. Can you explain what you mean by carnal lifestyle though?
Paul says that he is the worst of sinners, and that he doesn't do what he wants to do and he does what he doesn't want to. I would say he believed in sovereign free grace, right?
I do get called antinomian often outside of carm because of my "free grace" beliefs. My views are very similar to the English "baptists" in the 1600-1700s from supralapsarian.com and apparently they did as well. Interested in your thoughts.