Does, or can, our eschatological beliefs have an effect on our soteriology?

[fltom]

I Didn't Miss A Thing, Perhaps You Missed Post #1121

All Israel will be saved, when the last Soul is added to the Church on earth, then all Israel will be saved

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

Gods words clearly shows (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yes the Kingdom of God has been taken from National Ethnic Israel, And Given To The Church, a "Holy Nation" as clearly seen below

Matthew 21:43KJV

3 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Nope

You have confounded the children of the flesh - Abrahams 7 other sons and the lineage of Esau


With the Israelites (ethnic Jews - compare to the gentiles in verse 25 of Rom 11)

Romans 11:23-32 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

that is a reference to national Israel who will once again be grafted back into their olive tree not separate from but as part of the church

Romans 11:22-24 (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree that the free grace theology is no good, because I believe grace is sovereign. Can you explain what you mean by carnal lifestyle though?

I'm talking the practice of sin condemned in 1 John.

Paul says that he is the worst of sinners, and that he doesn't do what he wants to do and he does what he doesn't want to. I would say he believed in sovereign free grace, right?

I think you're conflating two different passages, 1 Timothy 1 and Romans 7. In the former Paul calls himself this due to his past persecution of the church which obviously still weighed on his conscience. In Romans 7 he shows his struggle against sin, and the struggle there is key,

I do get called antinomian often outside of carm because of my "free grace" beliefs.

Can you elaborate on how this gets you called antinomian?

My views are very similar to the English "baptists" in the 1600-1700s from supralapsarian.com and apparently they did as well. Interested in your thoughts.

Well, I'd have to take the time to go read that and won't get to it for a while.

 

[preacher4truth]

Can I ask about the Roman’s 1 error I have missed a bunch and there is to much to read . I do not have that kind of time on my hands to search through the threads that are moving so rapidly . I can’t keep up . Thank you .

Can you tell me why you agreed with one that I'm a liar not too long ago?

 

[preacher4truth]

I’m not sure what you mean but I’m not here for an argument. Thank you .

Just wondering why you agreed that I'm a liar, which is a serious charge. Since you agreed and made the same charge I think it is worth you telling me why. That's not arguing, it's talking man to man.

 

[eternomade]

Can you elaborate on how this gets you called antinomian

Mostly because of grace/law distinctions. No big deal just curious.

 

[guest1]

Forget that I asked you never mind . Thank you anyways .

Ignore the guy he is trying to bait you .

 

[preacher4truth]

Forget that I asked you never mind . Thank you anyways .

First off trying to reconcile isn't arguing, but your avoidance to reconcile is duly noted.

I'm simply trying to Biblically reconcile with you over agreeing with another that I'm a liar. That is having something against another, and me addressing it is the Biblical way of handling it.

But I see there is no reconciliation to be had (Matthew 18) because you're good in agreeing with others over slander, and are going against the Biblical mandate to reconcile with a brother.

 

[preacher4truth]

Mostly because of grace/law distinctions. No big deal just curious.

I was hoping for an explanation, not a dismissal. I mean I answered all of yours and you dismissed mine.

 

[eternomade]

I was hoping for an explanation, not a dismissal. I mean I answered all of yours and you dismissed mine.

I'm sorry, wasn't my intention. I didn't really disagree with much.

Can you elaborate on how this gets you called antinomian?

From the Reformed Church? It's a bit lengthy to write out. That was part of why I was curious to see if you had ever read any of the material from then.

As far as outside of that, mostly works based, performance based cults that do that, so it doesn't bother me.

I will be off for the night, goodnight.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm sorry, wasn't my intention. I didn't really disagree with much.

From the Reformed Church? It's a bit lengthy to write out. That was part of why I was curious to see if you had ever read any of the material from then.

As far as outside of that, mostly works based, performance based cults that do that, so it doesn't bother me.

I will be off for the night, goodnight.

OK, have a good night brother!

 

[preacher4truth]

There was no error well actually there was , his error and Hail Mary pass as a desperate attempt to save face . Typical of all heretics / false teachers to isolate a verse from the rest of scripture to form a doctrine . A tactic used by the cults . They isolate John 17:5 to prove the Father is the only true God.

Wow, just wow, the slander above is over the top, and all the name-calling.

 

[guest1]

Just wondering why you agreed that I'm a liar, which is a serious charge. Since you agreed and made the same charge I think it is worth you telling me why. That's not arguing, it's talking man to man.

I'm glad he ignored you it shows wisdom beyond your years.

And you claim to be a preacher/teacher with that behavior ?

yikes

 

[Truth7t7]

Nope

You have confounded the children of the flesh - Abrahams 7 other sons and the lineage of Esau


With the Israelites (ethnic Jews - compare to the gentiles in verse 25 of Rom 11)

Romans 11:23-32 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

that is a reference to national Israel who will once again be grafted back into their olive tree not separate from but as part of the church

Romans 11:22-24 (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Yes we strongly disagree

Two Israel's are seen, Israel of the flesh (Jews) and Israel after the Spirit, (Church) children of the promised seed, it's that simple

Gods words clearly shows (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[fltom]

Yes we strongly disagree

Two Israel's are seen, Israel of the flesh (Jews) and Israel after the Spirit, (Church) children of the promised seed, it's that simple

Gods words clearly shows (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

You have still misinterpreted that passage

The the children of the promise refers to the lineage of Isaac

Romans 9:7-10 (KJV)
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

 

[guest1]

Breaking the Stereotype in the OP which throws the baby out with the bathwater. One cannot make blanket statements regarding those who are Premillennial/ Dispensational..

Some of us here have been studying both Testament's longer than some have been alive on this forum.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 15:8
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the circumcised on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs,

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory.

And don't get me started on End Times Theology:

Let me look at my library really quick. Here are a few

The Blessed Hope by Ladd
The meaning of the millennium by Clouse: Ladd, Hoyt, Boettner, Hoekema
Understanding the times N.T. studies in the 21st Century
Israelology by Fruchtenbaum: postmillennialism, amillennialism, premillennialism, dispensationalism

I'm very familiar with the experts in each theological system. Plus I have the works by Pentecost, Chafer and Walvoord

hope this helps !!!

 

[Truth7t7]

Plus I have the works by Pentecost, Chafer and Walvoord

hope this helps !!!

Absolutely Worthless, Books Fit For Kindling A Fire

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes we strongly disagree

Two Israel's are seen, Israel of the flesh (Jews) and Israel after the Spirit, (Church) children of the promised seed, it's that simple

Gods words clearly shows (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So, are you amil or historic premill?

 

[Truth7t7]

So, are you amil or historic premill?

I believe Daniel's 70 weeks are "Future" literal weeks or 490 literal days and will start at a future command to build in Jerusalem

I believe in this 70th week a literal human man will take his seat in Jerusalem, proclaiming to be Messiah returned, I believe he will be a king/ruler of Hebrew decent, at this point the 3.5 year great tribulation starts

I believe the two witnesses seen in Revelation chapter 11 will be literal prophets returned, and will bring literal plagues, upon a literal world for 3.5 years, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

I believe they will be killed at the end of their testimony as the final days/hours of earth's existence unfolds in the second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hope that helps

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[guest1]

Absolutely Worthless, Books Fit For Kindling A Fire

So anything you disagree with is worthless ?

Are you infallible?

 

[guest1]

I believe Daniel's 70 weeks are literal "Future" weeks or 490 literal days and will start at a future command to build in Jerusalem

I believe in this 70th week a literal human man will take his seat in Jerusalem, proclaiming to be Messiah returned, I believe he will be a king/ruler of Hebrew decent, at this point the 3.5 year great tribulation starts

I believe the two witnesses seen in Revelation chapter 11 will be literal prophets returned, and will bring literal plagues, upon a literal world for 3.5 years, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

I believe they will be killed at the end of their testimony as the final days/hours of earth's existence unfolds in the second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hope that helps

Jesus Is The Lord

I can promise you that you have the two witness’s wrong .

You are batting 500 not a 1000.

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