Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

He was the forerunner and witness to the Messiah. He could not have preached the gospel prior to Jesus preaching it. And blessed John was beheaded before he heard Jesus preach.
The Gospel was preached to John the baptist.
Be for John baptized Jesus

John 1:31-34
I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, BUT THE ONE WHO SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER TOLD ME , ‘THE MAN ON WHOM YOU SEE THE SPIRIT COME DOWN AND REMAIN IS THE ONE WHO WILL BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT .I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

ACTS 1:5
For John baptised with water put in a few days you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit.

This was said after Matthew 28:19 why did Jesus specifying only John Baptize
With water.

At that point all of Jesus disciples would have been water baptising ....if it's true

Would not the gospel be Jesus baptising in the Holy Spirit .
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
My point is..
Mark 16:16 is a true statement and John the Baptist preached the one who comes after me will baptized in the Holy Spirit
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

WHY would Jesus say John only baptized in water after the Great commission ?Matthew 28:19 in ACTS 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

If Jesus in Matthew 28:19 was referring to water baptism Jesus would have said nothing about John baptizing with water in Acts 1:5 At that point everybody would have been baptizing in water.

What if Jesus was telling the 12 disciples in Matthew 28:19 ,what John the Baptist preached for JESUS would baptize in the name of the father son and Holy Spirit.

DOSE the baptism of the Holy Spirit save?

YES.
 
Matthew 28:19
Could have Jesus been explaining to the apostle's what he was sent to do.
baptised in the Holy Spirit to all the world.

Why would Jesus give structures to water baptizes but no detail on how to do it ?

When he himself never baptised anybody in water?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Matthew 28:19
Could have Jesus been explaining to the apostle's what he was sent to do.
baptised in the Holy Spirit to all the world.

Why would Jesus give structures to water baptizes but no detail on how to do it ?

When he himself never baptised anybody in water?
It that a serious argument?
 
It that a serious argument?
When Jesus told the apostle's to go make disciples of all nations baptising them in the father son Holy Spirit.

How would the apostle's known what he was speaking about knowing the water baptism at that time was Jewish ceremonial washing.

And the fact is John the Baptist water baptism had nothing to do with believers baptism.

Acts 1:1-5
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.5 For John baptized with water,but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”


Jesus only mentioned water baptism,
Reference to John the Baptist

And specifics only John baptized with water.

The emphasis is on the baptism of the Holy Spirit
 

Thistle

Well-known member
When Jesus told the apostle's to go make disciples of all nations baptising them in the father son Holy Spirit.

How would the apostle's known what he was speaking about knowing the water baptism at that time was Jewish ceremonial washing.
These are the same people who were baptizing in John 3:22 and it required "much water."
And the fact is John the Baptist water baptism had nothing to do with believers baptism.
Actually, no. John refused to baptize those who did not believe his messages. Namely, those who denied they had a cause to repent.

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" - Matthew 3:7 NASB
Acts 1:1-5
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.5 For John baptized with water,but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”


Jesus only mentioned water baptism,
Reference to John the Baptist
Water is an element of Christian baptism and the Holy Spirit is an element of Christian baptism; its not one or the other. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not an element of John's baptism. But either way, baptism is still a ceremony performed in water. The contrast Jesus is invoking is baptism with or without the Holy Spirit. Not with or without water.
And specifics only John baptized with water.
That is factually false.

"After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and [people] were coming and were being baptized--. . .
"Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John" -
- John 3:22–23; 4:1 NASB
Jesus and John were doing the same thing respecting water. Whatever else baptism means, it at least means immersing people in water, or it can be used analogically to evoke that image in the minds eye.
The emphasis is on the baptism of the Holy Spirit
BHS which can be applied analogically to Acts 2:1-4 and literally to Acts 2:41.
 
These are the same people who were baptizing in John 3:22 and it required "much water."

Actually, no. John refused to baptize those who did not believe his messages. Namely, those who denied they had a cause to repent.

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" - Matthew 3:7 NASB

Water is an element of Christian baptism and the Holy Spirit is an element of Christian baptism; its not one or the other. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not an element of John's baptism. But either way, baptism is still a ceremony performed in water. The contrast Jesus is invoking is baptism with or without the Holy Spirit. Not with or without water.

That is factually false.

"After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and [people] were coming and were being baptized--. . .
"Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John" -
- John 3:22–23; 4:1 NASB

Jesus and John were doing the same thing respecting water. Whatever else baptism means, it at least means immersing people in water, or it can be used analogically to evoke that image in the minds eye.

BHS which can be applied analogically to Acts 2:1-4 and literally to Acts 2:41.
The first think to understand is, Why did John the Baptist used water🤔

The answer is here in...JOHN 1:31-34
I myself did not know him, BUT THE REASON I CAME BAPTIZING WITH WATER was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him................. And I myself did not know him, BUT THE ONE WHO SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER TOLD ME ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


So with that said.....
The word BAPTIZO means to immerse in water.

John the Baptist had to immerse people in water looking for a DOVE 🕊

WHEN JESUS WAS BAPTIZE THE DOVE APPEARED...
Johns testimony was Complete..


Thats the reason Jesus refused to baptize JOHN.

JESUS'S BAPTISM WAS NOT FOR JESUS IT WAS FOR JOHN TO COMPLETE HIS TESTIMONY .

By John Completing his TESTIMONY he fulfilled all righteousness.

Water baptism was finished...

And Acts 1:1-4 will make more sense 😇
Only JOHN USED WATER TO BAPTIZE.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The first think to understand is, Why did John the Baptist used water🤔

The answer is here in...JOHN 1:31-34
I myself did not know him, BUT THE REASON I CAME BAPTIZING WITH WATER was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him................. And I myself did not know him, BUT THE ONE WHO SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER TOLD ME ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


So with that said.....
The word BAPTIZO means to immerse in water.

John the Baptist had to immerse people in water looking for a DOVE 🕊

WHEN JESUS WAS BAPTIZE THE DOVE APPEARED...
Johns testimony was Complete..


Thats the reason Jesus refused to baptize JOHN.

JESUS'S BAPTISM WAS NOT FOR JESUS IT WAS FOR JOHN TO COMPLETE HIS TESTIMONY .

By John Completing his TESTIMONY he fulfilled all righteousness.

Water baptism was finished...

And Acts 1:1-4 will make more sense 😇
Only JOHN USED WATER TO BAPTIZE.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
DOSE the baptism of the Holy Spirit save?
Nope - FAITH (gifted by God) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross Saves (being Born again of the Holy Spirit. The sequence for the disciples was John 20:22 Jesus ministered the holy spirit INTO the DIsciples, and then He tells 'em to hang around Jerusalem until they are ENDUED (clothed) with power from on High - the Acts 2:4 occasion when the Holy Spirit CAME UPON (not IN) the disciples.

SO The DIsciples were "Saved" and "Infilled by the Holy Spirit" at John 20:22", and "baptized with the Holy Spirit" at Acts 2:4.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Nope - FAITH (gifted by God) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross Saves (being Born again of the Holy Spirit. The sequence for the disciples was John 20:22 Jesus ministered the holy spirit INTO the DIsciples, and then He tells 'em to hang around Jerusalem until they are ENDUED (clothed) with power from on High - the Acts 2:4 occasion when the Holy Spirit CAME UPON (not IN) the disciples.

It's hard to believe anyone would say something like this. The Spirit is LIFE.

SO The DIsciples were "Saved" and "Infilled by the Holy Spirit" at John 20:22", and "baptized with the Holy Spirit" at Acts 2:4.
 
The first think to understand is, Why did John the Baptist used water🤔

The answer is here in...JOHN 1:31-34
I myself did not know him, BUT THE REASON I CAME BAPTIZING WITH WATER was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him................. And I myself did not know him, BUT THE ONE WHO SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER TOLD ME ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


So with that said.....
The word BAPTIZO means to immerse in water.

John the Baptist had to immerse people in water looking for a DOVE 🕊

WHEN JESUS WAS BAPTIZE THE DOVE APPEARED...
Johns testimony was Complete..


Thats the reason Jesus refused to baptize JOHN.

JESUS'S BAPTISM WAS NOT FOR JESUS IT WAS FOR JOHN TO COMPLETE HIS TESTIMONY .

By John Completing his TESTIMONY he fulfilled all righteousness.

Water baptism was finished...

And Acts 1:1-4 will make more sense 😇
Only JOHN USED WATER TO BAPTIZE.
When Jesus told the apostle's to go make disciples of all nations baptising them in the father son Holy Spirit.

How would the apostle's known what he was speaking about knowing the water baptism at that time was Jewish ceremonial washing.

And the fact is John the Baptist water baptism had nothing to do with believers baptism.

Acts 1:1-5
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.5 For John baptized with water,but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”


Jesus only mentioned water baptism,
Reference to John the Baptist

And specifics only John baptized with water.

The emphasis is on the baptism of the Holy Spirit
this is a serious argument, if its true 🤔
 

Thistle

Well-known member
The first think to understand is, Why did John the Baptist used water🤔
The correct framing of the question is crucial. Correctly framed the question would be, why is baptism a ceremony performed in water?
The answer is here in...JOHN 1:31-34
I myself did not know him, BUT THE REASON I CAME BAPTIZING WITH WATER was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him................. And I myself did not know him, BUT THE ONE WHO SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER TOLD ME ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”
That is one reason John gave for his baptism. Here is the reason Mark gave for John's baptism:

"John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."
- Mark 1:4 NASB
Believing, as I do, in the inerrancy of scripture I'd have to say there is more than one purpose. At least two reasons, possibly more that may, or may not be recorded in scripture.
So with that said.....
The word BAPTIZO means to immerse in water.

John the Baptist had to immerse people in water looking for a DOVE 🕊
And making them disciples of his teaching about repentance for the remission of sins.
WHEN JESUS WAS BAPTIZE THE DOVE APPEARED...
Johns testimony was Complete..
Well, if that is so his disciples didn't get that memo. Because they are still baptizing up a storm in John chapters 3 and 4.
Thats the reason Jesus refused to baptize JOHN.
When Jesus responded to John it was about Jesus' presentation of himself for baptism. He wasn't responding to John's rhetorical retort. So I don't believe Jesus believed that John actually requested that he [Jesus] baptize John.
JESUS'S BAPTISM WAS NOT FOR JESUS IT WAS FOR JOHN TO COMPLETE HIS TESTIMONY .
This seems to be part of an argument that there was only one reason for John's baptism, and we demonstrated above that, that is not the case.
By John Completing his TESTIMONY he fulfilled all righteousness.
If the righteousness category ended at Jesus' baptism, what is sanctification about?
Water baptism was finished...
Well, you seemed to have missed John 3 and 4 not to mention the entire book of Acts.
And Acts 1:1-4 will make more sense 😇
It made complete, perfect and exhaustive sense had you left my post as it was.
Only JOHN USED WATER TO BAPTIZE.
Obviously, that is not the case:

"As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing."
- Acts 8:36–39 NASB
So here is a question, what did the eunuch have to "believe with all [his] heart?" John's teaching about repentance, or the gospel which Philip just preached? The eunuch's answer was "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." That reminds me a lot more of the gospel than John's teaching about repentance.
 
John 3:25
An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of CEREMONIAL WASHING . They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

QUESTION.. why would JESUS be baptizing in water before the cross?
If so would it not be a CEREMONIAL believers baptism.?
This would be evidence of a first Great commission. 🤔

John 4 :1-4
Scripture says it was not Jesus doing the Baptisms.
WHAT IF.... Jesus was the Certain JEW arguing with Johns disciples telling them to quit performing old Jewish customs ceremonial washing mitzvah.

IN John 4:1-4 when JESUS LEARNED his Disciples were continuing ceremonial washing, the scripture says Jesus went back to Galilee. Maybe to rebuking them.

To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven.

You have to understand the water baptism John did had 2 reasons.
1. To find the sun of GOD

2. SO the people Repenting could wash away there Tears from crying 😢

True Repentance with great sorrow and great remorse.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
John 3:25
An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of CEREMONIAL WASHING . They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

QUESTION.. why would JESUS be baptizing in water before the cross?
John was baptizing people into his message of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. About this time Jews started engaging in proselyte baptism into their teaching of the Mosaic law. We can be quite sure then that the disciples of Jesus were baptizing people into the teaching of Jesus about the kingdom of God he was in the process of ushering in. But you are quite right to point out that this was not yet Christian baptism as the Church did not yet exist.
If so would it not be a CEREMONIAL believers baptism.?
It would not meet your definition of believers baptism. But it would indicate a belief in Jesus teaching, and would set the baptized apart as a disciple of Jesus.
This would be evidence of a first Great commission. 🤔
Not sure of your point.
John 4 :1-4
Scripture says it was not Jesus doing the Baptisms.
And it says that it was Jesus who was baptizing:

"After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing."
- John 3:22 NASB
So how to reconcile the apparent contradiction? Jesus' disciples were baptizing on his behalf, and under his authority, therefore this was an act of Jesus as Lord and Master of his disciples. Paradox resolved.

WHAT IF.... Jesus was the Certain JEW arguing with Johns disciples telling them to quit performing old Jewish customs ceremonial washing mitzvah.
Did John forget Jesus' name since verse 22? I'm guessing no.
IN John 4:1-4 when JESUS LEARNED his Disciples were continuing ceremonial washing, the scripture says Jesus went back to Galilee. Maybe to rebuking them.
That is not what the text says. What Jesus "knew" there in verse 4:1 was that "the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John." Jesus could not help but know that "He was spending time with them and baptizing."
To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven.

You have to understand the water baptism
The word baptism, like the word ocean, is comprised of water. The water is in knowing what the word means in context.
1. To find the sun of GOD

2. SO the people Repenting could wash away there Tears from crying 😢

True Repentance with great sorrow and great remorse.
John's baptism made people a disciple of John's teaching, same with Jesus, same with the Jews.
 

ziapueblo

Member
At that point all of Jesus disciples would have been water baptising ....if it's true
They did baptize with water. Look at Acts 8:26-40, in particular verses 38-39, "38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing."
 
Why
They did baptize with water. Look at Acts 8:26-40, in particular verses 38-39, "38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing."
Acts 8

has questions..
Why did the NIV Bible remove Acts 8:37?

Was Philip an Angel scripture says immediately after coming up out of the water he was snathed away?

The Ethiopian could have been BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Scripture says the Ethiopian went away rejoicing as if he was SAVED BY THE BAPTISM
 

ziapueblo

Member
Why did the NIV Bible remove Acts 8:37?

Was Philip an Angel scripture says immediately after coming up out of the water he was snathed away?
He was not an Angel, "26 Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, 'Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.' This is desert. 27 So he arose and went." God couldn't transport someone from one place to another?

The Ethiopian could have been BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Scripture says the Ethiopian went away rejoicing as if he was SAVED BY THE BAPTISM
Yes, we are baptized in water and Spirit.
 
John 1:31-34
Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


QUESTION....
Did GOD give JOHN the Baptist
Instructions to LOOK for a DOVE TO Identify THE SON OF GOD ?
 
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