I'm doing that now......
Good.
Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?
- Thread starter water only for JOHN
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Good.
Good is Right just as God by his apostle, 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
Truther
Well-known member
No, you debunk Acts 2:38(Peter) with Acts 10(Peter).
This is nuts.
Why don't you just come out and say Peter was confused until Acts 10, then he repented of teaching Acts 2:38 was false?
This is why you cannot come out...
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...
...which you REFUSE TO DO.
Good is Right just as God by his apostle, 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
https://forums.carm.org/threads/baptism-is-a-rite-not-salvation.231/page-57#post-621303
What's nuts is you believing the events of Acts 10:45 took place after what is described in Acts 10:48.
Truther
Well-known member
No, all I am saying is Acts 2:38 is fully included in the Acts 10 experience.
You only include this in YOUR experience....
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, ........., and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
But in Acts 10 they were saved before their water baptism.
To believe otherwise is to hold the false belief that one can have the Holy Spirit and be lost.
Truther
Well-known member
It doesn't say they were saved before baptism.
You assume that.
Your assumption debunks Acts 2:38(Peter).
You will never pull it off in the afterlife.
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....
...this command also goes for you, gentile.
The Bible does say they were saved for to be "given" the Holy Spirit means one is saved (1 John 4:13).
No, it doesn't. They were saved when they received the Holy Spirit.
greatdivide46
New Member
Sorry for butting in here, but it occurs to me that maybe the Holy Spirit falling on someone or being poured out on someone, is not the same thing as someone receiving the Holy Spirit.
The following terms synonymously describe what a person experiences by the Holy Spirit when he/she enters the Church.
a. Fell (Acts 8:16; 10:44; 11:15)
b. Poured (Acts 10:45; Romans 5:5; Titus 3:6)
c. Received (John 7:39; 14:17; 20:22;[2] Acts 1:8; 2:38; 8:15, 17, 19; 10:47; 19:2; Romans 8:15; 1 Corinthians 2:12; Galatians 3:2, 14)
d. Baptized (Acts 1:5; 11:16; Romans 6:3; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12)
e. Filled[3] (Acts 2:4; cf.11:17; 15:8)
f. Given (Acts 5:32; 8:18; 11:17; 15:8; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:8; 1 John 3:24; 4:13)
g. Obtain (Acts 8:20)
h. Came (eperchomai in Acts 1:8 and erchomai in Acts 19:6)
i. Begun (Galatians 3:3)
j. Provides (Galatians 3:5)
k. Sealed (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30)
l. Clothed (Luke 24:49; Galatians 3:27)
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him had the Holy Spirit fall on them (Acts 10:44; 11:15)
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. (NASB) Acta 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. (NASB)[1] 1. Citing Acts 11:15 the New International...
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greatdivide46
New Member
I haven't done any research on the etymology of these words, but just knowing the definitions of them in English, they don't look synonymous to me.
The evidence proves otherwise.
greatdivide46
New Member
I guess evidence is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see any evidence that proves these terms are synonymous. In fact the evidence I see proves otherwise. But, as I said, evidence is in the eye of the beholder. And if you wanna believe they're synonymous, that's your prerogative.
Just look at the different words being used to describe what took place with Cornelius and the Gentiles with him.
I redid the list so perhaps this time you will be able to see.
a. Fell (Acts 10:44)
b. Poured (Acts 10:45)
c. Received (Acts 10:47)
d. Baptized (Acts 11:16)
e. Given (Acts 11:17; 15:8)
And then you didn't supply any.
Truther
Well-known member
They were saved before baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins per Peter in Acts 2:38?...
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter repented of water baptism commands by Acts 10?
The above is correct.
No need to repent of a sin he didn't commit. God showed him and all others that can see (hint) that since these Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit they were saved before their water baptism (1 John 4:13).
greatdivide46
New Member
I see what you're saying. And I don't dispute the events that occurred; I just don't agree with your conclusions about what happened with Cornelius and the Gentiles with him. I don't believe they were saved until they received the Holy Spirit in baptism as Peter said would happen when he spoke on the Day of Pentecost (cf. Acts 2:38).
...in contradiction to the passages I cited.
They received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).
Truther
Well-known member
You misquoted me as clever Acts skippers do.
Why did Peter COMMAND the gentiles to be baptized in the name of the Lord immediately after they were filled with the Holy Ghost, unlike what you Acts skippers do?
When is the last time you heard an Acts skipper command someone to be baptized in the name of the Lord, regardless of if they think the person is saved or not?
Never?
Correct, because they are anti-Acts 2:38, claiming to mimic Peter but protesting Peter as much as they can.
They have no remission of sins, which obviously shows by debunking Acts 2:38.