You are still dodging the fact that these Gentiles were saved before their water baptism.
Heretics often do this.
Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?
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You are still dodging the fact that these Gentiles were saved before their water baptism.
Heretics often do this.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Functionally, The INFILLING of the Holy Spirit = is being "Born Again of the Holy Spirit". THAT is what saves and CHANGES the person. This happened for the first time at John 20:22 when Jesus "Breathed on them" and imparted the Holy Spirit into their lives.
Jhn 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
The Holy Spirit had NEVER been "IN" people before. It couldn't happen before the Crucifixion, and Resurrection of Jesus. When a SIN is FORGIVEN, the injured party "Tears up the I.O.U." but the SIN REMAINS on the person who sinned. In the OLD Testament, the Blood sacrifice only COVERED / HID the SIN of Israel but didn't REMOVE it
The effect of Jesus' SIN OFFERING (Isa 53) was CLEANSING FROM SIN by faith - REMOVAL/ELIMINATION of the Sin. When one is BORN AGAIN of the Holy Spirit and infilled by Him, they become PERFECT in God's sight, with the very PERFECTION of Jesus Himself.
The "BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit", is a different breed of cat. Jesus referred to it as "Being Endued (externally clothed) with Power from on high". This wasn't "unique" because all through the Old Testament, individuals had been "Endued with Power from on high" - David and the sling shot / Samson, and his great physical strength / Moses / Elijah / Elisha / Etc, Etc.
SO - John 20:22 = the Holy Spirit INDWELLING the person, "Saving" them and making them Christians.
The "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" Acts 2:4 = the Holy Spirit ON the person who is already saved, and enduing them with POWER for ministry.
Truther
Well-known member
You dismiss this....
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...
And this...
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
And this...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....
And this...
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
For this...
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Which means you are an Acts skipper, extrordinaire.
Truther
Well-known member
I got remission of sins via baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
You skipped that, so you have all your sins.
The solution to your bleak situation is to obey Acts 2:38, not to lash out with "heretic".
greatdivide46
New Member
Sorry, I don't see the contradiction.
"Receive" implies that the person receiving took some action. The Gentiles didn't even know what was going to happen. And while Luke does use the word "receive" when quoting Peter in Acts 10:47, he also adds the words "just as we have" which tells me he's referring to Pentecost when the Jews spoke in tongues. I don't believe he's referring to their salvation in Acts 10:47. If he were he wouldn't have needed to command them to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
Did not occur in relation to water baptism in Acts 10.
If one has received the Holy Spirit means they are saved,
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47)
Acts 10:47-48 (47) “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” (48) And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. (NASB) Since these Gentiles received...
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The first command given to them after their salvation.
Truther
Well-known member
Yes, when the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, it fell on them unsuspectedly.
I had the similar thing happen to me in 1979.
This did not negate my command to fulfill to be baptized in the name of Jesus after that experience, so I followed the command fully.
Many modernists just go back to their false religions after the Holy Ghost falls on them.
The Spirit of truth cannot even guide these spiritual mules.
Truther
Well-known member
Notice, Acts 2, 8 and 19 all had baptism for remission of sins first.
Acts 10 shows baptism for remission of sins afterwards.
You use that reasoning to altogether debunk baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins?
Is dying in your sins worth that kind of reasoning(stubbornness)?
Acts 8 and 19 the Holy Spirit was not given upon water baptism so therefore they were not yet saved.
Your assertion is wrong because they already received the Holy Spirit.
Truther
Well-known member
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...
The Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/baptism-after-salvation.5614/page-9#post-625175
Truther
Well-known member
Mark skippers.
Get abunch of anti-baptismalist PHDs together to delete Mark too.
Sick "Christians".
I saw a documentary on them doubting most of the gospels etc, as forgeries on a PBS channel.
Better stand for something or you will fall for anything.
Remember, we are talking about people that are totally anti-baptism as a group that took a detour in the reformation. They even debunk their Bible to justify their 200ish, year old, hand me down beliefs.
Mark 1:1 to Mark 16:8
Truther
Well-known member
PHD's to the masses of mushheads...
"I know, let's do away with Mark 16:16(it just doesn't look right) and do away with baptism so we can promote our modern beliefs".
"Let's just say it was forged, then we can eventually do away with Acts 2:38".
"Mark 16:16 is a bummer".
It was never there to begin with.
Truther
Well-known member
Acts skipper jargon.
Kinda like the JWs just "doing away" with hell.
Their brilliant PHD's say it, they believe it.
You just said Peter was wrong in Acts 2:38. How was Peter wrong?
The issue is not the gift of the HS the issue is when one is saved. The fact that they were commanded to be baptized in Acts 10 proves the necessity of water baptism. So the question is, can anyone forbid water?
The gift of the HS is from God. The issue here is what we must initially do to be saved.