Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

The correct framing of the question is crucial. Correctly framed the question would be, why is baptism a ceremony performed in water?

That is one reason John gave for his baptism. Here is the reason Mark gave for John's baptism:

"John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."
- Mark 1:4 NASB
Believing, as I do, in the inerrancy of scripture I'd have to say there is more than one purpose. At least two reasons, possibly more that may, or may not be recorded in scripture.

And making them disciples of his teaching about repentance for the remission of sins.

Well, if that is so his disciples didn't get that memo. Because they are still baptizing up a storm in John chapters 3 and 4.

When Jesus responded to John it was about Jesus' presentation of himself for baptism. He wasn't responding to John's rhetorical retort. So I don't believe Jesus believed that John actually requested that he [Jesus] baptize John.

This seems to be part of an argument that there was only one reason for John's baptism, and we demonstrated above that, that is not the case.

If the righteousness category ended at Jesus' baptism, what is sanctification about?

Well, you seemed to have missed John 3 and 4 not to mention the entire book of Acts.

It made complete, perfect and exhaustive sense had you left my post as it was.

Obviously, that is not the case:

"As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing."
- Acts 8:36–39 NASB
So here is a question, what did the eunuch have to "believe with all [his] heart?" John's teaching about repentance, or the gospel which Philip just preached? The eunuch's answer was "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." That reminds me a lot more of the gospel than John's teaching about repentance.
John 1:31-34
Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


QUESTION....
Did GOD give JOHN the Baptist
Instructions to LOOK for a DOVE TO Identify THE SON OF GOD ?
 

SPOKENWORD

Well-known member
My point is..
Mark 16:16 is a true statement and John the Baptist preached the one who comes after me will baptized in the Holy Spirit
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

WHY would Jesus say John only baptized in water after the Great commission ?Matthew 28:19 in ACTS 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

If Jesus in Matthew 28:19 was referring to water baptism Jesus would have said nothing about John baptizing with water in Acts 1:5 At that point everybody would have been baptizing in water.

What if Jesus was telling the 12 disciples in Matthew 28:19 ,what John the Baptist preached for JESUS would baptize in the name of the father son and Holy Spirit.

DOSE the baptism of the Holy Spirit save?
No it does not save us. It empowers us to do the works of God.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
John 1:31-34
Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


QUESTION....
Did GOD give JOHN the Baptist
Instructions to LOOK for a DOVE TO Identify THE SON OF GOD ?
Yes.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
My point is..
Mark 16:16 is a true statement and John the Baptist preached the one who comes after me will baptized in the Holy Spirit
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

WHY would Jesus say John only baptized in water after the Great commission ?Matthew 28:19 in ACTS 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
There WAS NO "salvation" as we have it YET. Jesus hadn't Died, and there was NO SIN OFFERING to cleanse anybody - YET,
If Jesus in Matthew 28:19 was referring to water baptism Jesus would have said nothing about John baptizing with water in Acts 1:5 At that point everybody would have been baptizing in water.

What if Jesus was telling the 12 disciples in Matthew 28:19 ,what John the Baptist preached for JESUS would baptize in the name of the father son and Holy Spirit.

DOSE the baptism of the Holy Spirit save?
Nope - the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit, following surrender, Repentance, and calling on God for salvation does, though.

The "Indwelling" of the Holy Spirit is "the Holy Spirit IN the Christian" John 20:22. = the Gospel, sins not just FORGIVEN but REMOVED COMPLETELY.

The "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit is "the Holy Spirit ON the Christian" Acts 2:4. = Power in ministry and service.
 

Saxon

Active member
there 2 types of baptism
1 by water
2 by Holy Spirit (tongues of fire)
There 3 baptisms that are directed to Christians, those that are saved. Water baptism, Acts 8:36 to 38. Philip, a man doing it. 1 Corinthians 12:13 Baptism into the one body (the body of Christ) The Holy Spirit doing it. Mat 3:11 Baptism in the Holy Spirit Jesus (He that comes after me (John the Baptist)) Read the verses and take note of who is baptizing the believer and what is used to baptize.
 

Saxon

Active member
Why

Acts 8

has questions..
Why did the NIV Bible remove Acts 8:37?
Different manuscripts were used for translating. There are over 20 translations that have Acts 8:37 and those that don't usually have a note directing to it.
Was Philip an Angel scripture says immediately after coming up out of the water he was snathed away?
No, Philip was a man, one of the first deacons. The fact that he was snatched away and not under his own power should give you your answer.
The Ethiopian could have been BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.
There is no support of that in the verses relating to his baptism. Read it and you will see that he was baptized in water.
Scripture says the Ethiopian went away rejoicing as if he was SAVED BY THE BAPTISM
You seem to want to believe that Acts 8:37 isn't scripture but the fact that it is in the bible should assure you that it is. If not then you have to believe that God is not in control of what is in the Bible.

Acts 8:37 indicates that Philip would not have baptized him if he did not believe. (saved) What is written is what is important, what is NOT there is a waste of time.
 

Saxon

Active member
John 1:31-34
Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a ""DOVE ""and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”


QUESTION....
Did GOD give JOHN the Baptist
Instructions to LOOK for a DOVE TO Identify THE SON OF GOD ?
Your answer is in the text that you quoted.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Would it be fair to say John the Baptist preached the gospel in Matthew 3:11
Jesus saves. That is why the proclamation is baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.

In Mt 3:11 John only identifies the One through whom the Spirit proceeds directly.
 

Cynthia

Active member
There 3 baptisms that are directed to Christians, those that are saved. Water baptism, Acts 8:36 to 38. Philip, a man doing it. 1 Corinthians 12:13 Baptism into the one body (the body of Christ) The Holy Spirit doing it. Mat 3:11 Baptism in the Holy Spirit Jesus (He that comes after me (John the Baptist)) Read the verses and take note of who is baptizing the believer and what is used to baptize.
nope.

Water and Spirit. Only 2 baptisms.

The fire was from the Holy Spirit. So Water and Spirit holds up.

the Holy Spirit is given by measure differently for each saved person. to distribute gifts. we don't all have the same gifts. As Paul teaches us.
 

Cynthia

Active member
Ephesians 4:5 specifies the number of literal baptisms.
Yes. You win the prize. Since water baptism was for repentance (an outward confession of our sin needing to be cleansed). Now we have the baptism (the one baptism) by the one Spirit which saves us. It also gives us gifts in differing measure as I mentioned earlier to someone else. But we can still be water immersed as an outward confession of faith that we have been or will be baptized by the Spirit. No harm No foul. But water does not save us, the Spirit does.
 

Saxon

Active member
nope.

Water and Spirit. Only 2 baptisms.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

What does this mean?
The fire was from the Holy Spirit. So Water and Spirit holds up.
There 3 baptisms that are directed to Christians, a fourth directed at the lost. John said that Jesus baptises with the Holy spirit and with fire. Fire baptism is baptising the lost into the lake of fire.
the Holy Spirit is given by measure differently for each saved person. to distribute gifts. we don't all have the same gifts. As Paul teaches us.
That is when the saved are baptised into the Holy Spirit by Jesus. See Acts 1:4, 5 & 8 then Acts 2:1 to 4.
 

Cynthia

Active member
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

What does this mean?

There 3 baptisms that are directed to Christians, a fourth directed at the lost. John said that Jesus baptises with the Holy spirit and with fire. Fire baptism is baptising the lost into the lake of fire.

That is when the saved are baptised into the Holy Spirit by Jesus. See Acts 1:4, 5 & 8 then Acts 2:1 to 4.
The baptism by fire was the tongues of fire on Pentecost. I'm going to ignore your hair-splitting of verses to try to make 3 or 4 baptisms. Goodbye
 

Son Of Saxon

Active member
The baptism by fire was the tongues of fire on Pentecost. I'm going to ignore your hair-splitting of verses to try to make 3 or 4 baptisms. Goodbye
No, it is not, Fire is used to describe the action of them speaking in tounges. As if their mouths were burning.

Baptism by fire is What happens when you receive the Holy Spirit, and it separates the wheat from the chaff, Christs resurrection burns up the useless and dead chaff. Well, Christ and his fan.....lol

Also, there is only 1 baptism. You receive the Spirit and are cleansed by water baptism. This was Gods plan.

[Eze 36:24-27] 24 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

[Act 2:38 ] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ordinarily, the Spirit is received in and through your baptism, a means of Grace. Post baptism of John. Hence why Paul re-baptizes John's candidates in Acts after they explain they did not receive the holy spirit.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Yes. You win the prize. Since water baptism was for repentance
No, Christian baptism is not the baptism of John.
(an outward confession of our sin needing to be cleansed).
Obviously not baptism is one thing repentance is another Acts 2:38.
Now we have the baptism (the one baptism) by the one Spirit which saves us.
We know what Christian baptism is comprised of, it's recorded in Acts 8:36 through 39.
It also gives us gifts in differing measure as I mentioned earlier to someone else.
Baptism doesn't have agency and it can't give anything; the Holy Spirit can give things. Of course in the book of Acts of the apostles and prophets did distribute miraculous gifts by the laying on of hands.
But we can still be water immersed as an outward confession of faith
This is an inference people draw, but the Bible doesn't say that. I really don't see any authoritative reason to believe it.
that we have been or will be baptized by the Spirit.
If you mean spirit baptism as we read about in first Corinthians 12:13 that is part and parcel of literal baptism.
No harm No foul. But water does not save us, the Spirit does.
Of course not, Colossians 2:12 says we are saved in baptism by the powerful working of God who raised Christ from the dead. But nothing about that changes the fact that we are saved "in baptism."
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
Immersion in fire was judgment against those that did not turn to Christ. Fire was always a symbol of judgement throughout scripture. Immersion in fire is not an immersion one wants to experience.
 
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