Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

N

Newbirth

Well-known member
Fred said:
If one has received the Holy Spirit means they are saved,

Cornelius and the Gentiles with him received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47)

Acts 10:47-48 (47) “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” (48) And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. (NASB) Since these Gentiles received...
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we are saved by grace through faith...Please explain what a person ought to do through faith...
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

You have to explain what happened between the angel giving the message to Corneilus and Cornelius doing what Peter told him to do. Two things happened ...Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius and his household and they received the HS then he commanded them to be baptized...
The issue here is God sent him to Peter for Peter to tell him what to do...
Fred said:
The first command given to them after their salvation.
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If that is the case why did God send him to Peter? Would you say that they are saved even if they were not baptized or refused to be baptized? Or is it that all these things work together for one to be saved?
 
N

Newbirth

Well-known member
Fred said:
Acts 8 and 19 the Holy Spirit was not given upon water baptism so therefore they were not yet saved.
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Nonsense...You seem to be saying that it is the apostles who give the HS...
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

According to your understanding, the eunuch was not saved since there is no record of him receiving the HS
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.


Fred said:
Your assertion is wrong because they already received the Holy Spirit.
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Are you saying they were not baptized afterward?
 
Truther

Truther

Well-known member
Fred said:
The Gospel of Mark is not the Book of Acts.

Get it right next time.
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The gospel of Mark precludes the book of Acts...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

...which has no meaning in your life.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Newbirth said:
we are saved by grace through faith...Please explain what a person ought to do through faith...
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

You have to explain what happened between the angel giving the message to Corneilus and Cornelius doing what Peter told him to do. Two things happened ...Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius and his household and they received the HS then he commanded them to be baptized...
The issue here is God sent him to Peter for Peter to tell him what to do...

If that is the case why did God send him to Peter? Would you say that they are saved even if they were not baptized or refused to be baptized? Or is it that all these things work together for one to be saved?
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https://forums.carm.org/threads/baptism-after-salvation.5614/page-10#post-625742
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Truther said:
The gospel of Mark precludes the book of Acts...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;...
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Mark ends at 16:8.

Truther said:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

...which has no meaning in your life.
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You can provide no clear-cut case that htis command was ever given to any Gentile.
 
N

Newbirth

Well-known member
Fred said:
Which proves you don't understand Romans 8:9.
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Romans 8:9 has nothing to do with water baptism...
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Fred said:
Thanks for making this easy for me.
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yet you did not understand...You are denying that water baptism is necessary for salvation. So my question to you is if Cornelius and his household had refused to be baptized would they be saved? A simple yes or no would suffice.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Newbirth said:
Romans 8:9 has nothing to do with water baptism...
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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It does show if one doesn't have the Spirit they are not saved.
In Acts 8 and Acts 19 they did not yet have the Spirit until the imposition of hands.
Thus, they were not yet saved.

Thayt was easy.

Thanks
 
N

Newbirth

Well-known member
Fred said:
It does show if one doesn't have the Spirit they are not saved.
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Paul is writing to the church, is he not?... notice his words...."if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" Paul is making it clear that some believers could have the HS but the HS is not dwelling in them...
Romans 12
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. ...
Paul makes it clear that members in the church were fornicating and fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God...Read the passage...
Fred said:
In Acts 8 and Acts 19 they did not yet have the Spirit until the imposition of hands.
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then you are saying the HS comes by laying of hands... You are bemused by the outward signs...
Fred said:
Thus, they were not yet saved.

Thayt was easy.

Thanks
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1 Corinthians 12:30
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Did you speak with tongues when you were baptized? Did anyone lay hands on you and give you the HS and you spoke with tongues?
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Newbirth said:
Paul is writing to the church, is he not?... notice his words...."if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" Paul is making it clear that some believers could have the HS but the HS is not dwelling in them...
Romans 12
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. ...
Paul makes it clear that members in the church were fornicating and fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God...Read the passage...

then you are saying the HS comes by laying of hands... You are bemused by the outward signs...

1 Corinthians 12:30
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Did you speak with tongues when you were baptized? Did anyone lay hands on you and give you the HS and you spoke with tongues?
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You asserted a lot of nothing.
 
Truther

Truther

Well-known member
Fred said:
Nope.
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Great, so Mark 16:16 perfectly goes with this....


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...

9 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:...

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...



....which great commision and fulfillment you don't agree with.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Truther said:
Great, so Mark 16:16 perfectly goes with this....


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...

9 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:...

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...



....which great commision and fulfillment you don't agree with.
Click to expand...


Cornelius and the Gentiles with him were saved before their water baptism.
 
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