Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

[Fred]

I posted the scriptures and asked a few questions.

You asserted: Paul is writing to the church, is he not?... notice his words...."if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" Paul is making it clear that some believers could have the HS but the HS is not dwelling in them...


If one has the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit is dwelling in them.

 

[Newbirth]

Cornelius and the Gentiles with him were saved before their water baptism.

Yet they had not entered into the kingdom of God. You are saying that salvation is outside the kingdom of God.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Fred]

Yet they had not entered into the kingdom of God. You are saying that salvation is outside the kingdom of God.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water = Spirit

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Both refer to being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Truther]

Cornelius and the Gentiles with him were saved before their water baptism.

Is that why Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus as per Acts 2:38, immediately?

 

[Fred]

then you are saying the HS comes by laying of hands...

1. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): ...the apostles of Christ received power to confer the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19; 19:6; but cf. 2:38; 10:44-48) (2:611, Might, O. Betz).
2. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Commonly cheir refers to the "hand" as a part of the body (Mt. 12:10; Acts 12:7). (1) Many times it is used in the practice of "the laying on of hands," as when someone is commissioned for ministry (Acts 6:6; 13:3; 1 Tim. 5:22), someone prays for, blesses, or heals another (Mt. 9:18; 19:13, 15), or the apostles convey the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17, 19) (Hand, page 318).
3. F. F. Bruce: The sequence of the component elements in Christian initiation varies from one occasion to another in Acts. Peter's hearers in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost repent, are baptized, and receive the Spirit (2:38, 41); the Samaritans evangelized by Philip believed and are baptized "into the name of the Lord Jesus", but do not receive the Spirit until apostolic hands are laid on them (8:12, 14-17); Cornelius and his household receive the Spirit while they are still listening to the message and are then baptized (Paul: Apostle of the Heart Set Free, page 280, chapter 25, Baptism and the Lord's Supper in Pauline Thought).

 

[Fred]

Is that why Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus

Yes

as per Acts 2:38, immediately?

The gift of the Holy Spirit was received (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48)

 

[Newbirth]

You asserted: Paul is writing to the church, is he not?... notice his words...."if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" Paul is making it clear that some believers could have the HS but the HS is not dwelling in them...

The passage is taken from 1 Corinthians 1...I did not assert anything...Paul addressed ti epistle to the chyrch...
1 Cor 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

If one has the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit is dwelling in them.

Nope, if the HS is dwelling in a person that person cannot sin...A person can only sin when they are drawn away from the HS...
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Fred]

Nope, if the HS is dwelling in a person that person cannot sin...

False. It's sad that you have been so corrupted and believe such stupidity.

You are going to have to do a whole lot better than simply asserting something.

 

[Newbirth]

1. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): ...the apostles of Christ received power to confer the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19; 19:6; but cf. 2:38; 10:44-48) (2:611, Might, O. Betz).
2. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Commonly cheir refers to the "hand" as a part of the body (Mt. 12:10; Acts 12:7). (1) Many times it is used in the practice of "the laying on of hands," as when someone is commissioned for ministry (Acts 6:6; 13:3; 1 Tim. 5:22), someone prays for, blesses, or heals another (Mt. 9:18; 19:13, 15), or the apostles convey the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17, 19) (Hand, page 318).
3. F. F. Bruce: The sequence of the component elements in Christian initiation varies from one occasion to another in Acts. Peter's hearers in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost repent, are baptized, and receive the Spirit (2:38, 41); the Samaritans evangelized by Philip believed and are baptized "into the name of the Lord Jesus", but do not receive the Spirit until apostolic hands are laid on them (8:12, 14-17); Cornelius and his household receive the Spirit while they are still listening to the message and are then baptized (Paul: Apostle of the Heart Set Free, page 280, chapter 25, Baptism and the Lord's Supper in Pauline Thought).

Man cannot grant/confer the HS. The HS comes directly from God.
1 Thessalonians 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

 

[Fred]

Man cannot grant/confer the HS. The HS comes directly from God.
1 Thessalonians 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

By the hands of the apostles (Acts 8, 19).

Easy...so easy.
Thanks

 

[Newbirth]

False. It's sad that you have been so corrupted and believe such stupidity.

You are going to have to do a whole lot better than simply asserting something.

I did not assert anything.
I quoted a scripture passage to support my position...You have not posted any scripture to support your position.
I am posting another passage to support my position...
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Please post your passage showing why you disagree with the two passages that I posted.

 

[Truther]

Yes



The gift of the Holy Spirit was received (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48)

Of course, but the Holy Ghost is not the sin remitter.

It is the name of Jesus during baptism that remits sins.

You have no remission of sins.

The Holy Ghost is trying to lead you to remission of sins, as it did with Cornelius etc.

 

[Newbirth]

By the hands of the apostles (Acts 8, 19).

Easy...so easy.
Thanks

you are funny...by the hand of which apostle did Cornelius receive the HS? By the hand of which apostles did the people in the upper room receive the HS? By the hand of which Apostle did Jesus receive the HS?

 

[Truther]

False. It's sad that you have been so corrupted and believe such stupidity.

You are going to have to do a whole lot better than simply asserting something.

I agree.

Folks with the Holy Ghost can indeed sin.

If any man says he has no sin, he is a ....

 

[Newbirth]

I agree.

Folks with the Holy Ghost can indeed sin.

Not if the HS is in them...
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

If any man says he has no sin, he is a ....

The issue here is not saying you have no sin...the context of that passage speaks about "not having sinned" and not about "having no sins"... We don't store up sins, do we? If God forgives all your sins when you ask it follows that at some point you will have no sins. Therefore John is speaking about a man saying he has not sinned. All have sinned. But I assure you no one can sin if they are following the HS in them. They must first draw away from the HS in order to sin.
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Fred]

I did not assert anything.

From post 607 of yours: if the HS is dwelling in a person that person cannot sin.

The above is your assertion, genius.

 

[Truther]

Not if the HS is in them...
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The issue here is not saying you have no sin...the context of that passage speaks about "not having sinned" and not about "having no sins"... We don't store up sins, do we? If God forgives all your sins when you ask it follows that at some point you will have no sins. Therefore John is speaking about a man saying he has not sinned. All have sinned. But I assure you no one can sin if they are following the HS in them. They must first draw away from the HS in order to sin.
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The epistle of 1 John to the saints...

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Newbirth]

The epistle of 1 John to the saints...

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we are cleansed from all unrighteousness...what sin can we have? That is clearly an error in translation in mvs 8...For those two lines to make any sense the first line must read... If we say that we have not sinned, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Newbirth]

From post 607 of yours: if the HS is dwelling in a person that person cannot sin.

The above is your assertion, genius.

I posted the passage sir...If I am asserting then I am asserting after John... John says he cannot sin if the seed remains in him...
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Fred]

I posted the passage sir...If I am asserting

You are.

And this is what you denied.

How pathetic.