Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
John 3:16 says who ever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life. You contradict the Word of God.

He only said what Acts 2:38 STATES. You are the one contradicting Scripture by denying what Acts 2:38 states.

The way we put our faith in Christ is by being baptised INTO Christ.

Since the Word can't be contradicted it means you don't really understand Acts 2:38.

Do you take aspirin for your head-ache, that is to get a head-ache or do you take aspirin because of your head-ache?
 

CrowCross

Super Member
He only said what Acts 2:38 STATES. You are the one contradicting Scripture by denying what Acts 2:38 states.

The way we put our faith in Christ is by being baptised INTO Christ.
I'm not denying what it states...I'm simply denying the contradictory interpretation he presents it as.

There are other verses such as he who call on the name of the lord will be saved....no baptism mentioned.

If baptism in water was a requirement of being saved you better believe there would have been a major big-time discussion of it in one of the books of the bible.
 

Fred

Well-known member
Tell us why Paul is warning them about being destroyed for destroying God's temple.

to punish with death, 1 Corinthians 3:17{b}

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
I'm not denying what it states...I'm simply denying the contradictory interpretation he presents it as.

Really? And what "contradictory interpretation" would that be>

There are other verses such as he who call on the name of the lord will be saved....no baptism mentioned.

John 3:16 doesn't mention repentance so I guess you can dispense with that too right?

If baptism in water was a requirement of being saved you better believe there would have been a major big-time discussion of it in one of the books of the bible.

There would be no need for such a discussion. Their starting point wasn't your confusion on the matter.

One puts his faith in Christ by dying together with Christ and water baptism is how one dies together with Christ.

It's there in your Bible.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Really? And what "contradictory interpretation" would that be>
That water washes away sins. That water takes the place of the blood of Christ.
John 3:16 doesn't mention repentance so I guess you can dispense with that too right?
What is involved in belief? Repent means to turn...turn to a belief in Christ for salvation and eternal life.
There would be no need for such a discussion. Their starting point wasn't your confusion on the matter.

One puts his faith in Christ by dying together with Christ and water baptism is how one dies together with Christ.

It's there in your Bible.
No, water baptism is a symbolic act of dying, being buried and resurrecting with Christ.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Would it be fair to say John the Baptist preached the gospel in Matthew 3:11
A good part of it, fer sure, fer sure.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit, however has nothing to do with Salvation. The apostles were SAVED at John 20:22, and the Baptism in the Holy SPirit (the enduement of power from on high) happened later at Acts 2:4.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
That water washes away sins. That water takes the place of the blood of Christ.

In water baptism we die with Christ who removes our sins.

What is involved in belief?

Faith is not just agreeing that something is true which appears to be what you think.

Repent means to turn...turn to a belief in Christ for salvation and eternal life.

No, it means to turn from your ways.

No, water baptism is a symbolic act of dying, being buried and resurrecting with Christ.

Unbiblical fabrication of men.

Water baptism is how we die together with Christ.
 

Truther

Well-known member
John 3:16 says who ever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life. You contradict the Word of God. Since the Word can't be contradicted it means you don't really understand Acts 2:38.

Do you take aspirin for your head-ache, that is to get a head-ache or do you take aspirin because of your head-ache?
Jesus had an addendum added to believing....

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved,,,
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Jesus had an addendum added to believing....

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved,,,
You didn't answer the question.

You simply presented a verse. You also failed to mention the second part of the verse leaves out "baptism".
 

Truther

Well-known member
You didn't answer the question.

You simply presented a verse. You also failed to mention the second part of the verse leaves out "baptism".
Are you saying that Jesus expected unbelievers to be baptized?

Something like this?...

He that is in unbelief and is baptized...
 

Truther

Well-known member
Per Acts 8, Phillip refused to baptize an unbeliever and you think Jesus said unbelievers will be baptized?

Was Phillip wrong or Jesus?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Chapter 3 says we cannot sin.

Paul speaks of an evil and good part of himself in Romans 7, which is what I think explains this quandry.

There is a part of my being that is seen as "sin free" because I was baptized in the name of Jesus for the REMISSION of my sins.

There is another part of me that hates the things of God, that I must crucify daily.
You are taking passages out of context... After baptism, one is sin free if they do not sin. If you hate the things of God then you are not in the kingdom.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
you're not starting early enough look at John 3:5. Also pick up again after the dialogue with Nicodemus in verse 22 which clarifies all the proceeding.
John 3:5...OK, it mentions water. I can give you several answers as to what the water is from being born of amniotic fluid or water....or the water is another way of describing the purification of the Holy Spirit and not baptism by water..
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Are you saying that Jesus expected unbelievers to be baptized?

Something like this?...

He that is in unbelief and is baptized...
Believes an is baptized...then leaves out baptism when mentioned with does not believe. Christ is saying you need faith to be saved...not baptism as the reason it is omitted.

Many people are baptized and don't believe.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
John 3:5...OK, it mentions water. I can give you several answers as to what the water is from being born of amniotic fluid or water....or the water is another way of describing the purification of the Holy Spirit and not baptism by water..
I'm familiar with the alternative interpretations. But you can look in all of the existing first century Greek or even other languages, and you will not find a single example of the term for water used for amniotic fluid as an allusion to birth. It's far too easy just to point out that it doesn't happen in the Bible. It doesn't happen anywhere in ancient writings period. That's really an impossible explanation because it takes at least a 19th-century state of mind to even dream it up.

As to the connection of water to purification and washing ceremonies' connection to transformation that's all true. But the coincidance of the gift of the Holy Spirit and the purification ceremony are not mutually exclusive choices. I agree with the layered meaning, but I disagree with the false dichotomy.

And finally the connection of the story of the encounter with Nicodemus and what follows immediately following in verse 22 through the end of the chapter and the beginning of the next, I think it is just too obvious to ignore. It's all about baptism.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
John 3:5...OK, it mentions water.
There you go.
I can give you several answers as to what the water is from being born of amniotic fluid or water
it does not mention amniotic fluid. In any case, it is something that a person must do, not something that already happened.
...or the water is another way of describing the purification of the Holy Spirit and not baptism by water..
It cannot be what you are claiming...5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Clearly, it is two things happening to the person who wants to enter the kingdom. It says water and spirit. You are suggesting spirit and spirit.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Believes an is baptized...then leaves out baptism when mentioned with does not believe.
Then it is obvious that unbelievers are not baptized.
Christ is saying you need faith to be saved
We all know that faith comes by hearing...one believes what they heard and does it. We heard repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and did it. What did you hear?
...not baptism as the reason it is omitted.
It is omitted because unbelievers are not obedient to Jesus. They argue that baptism is not necessary. On the other hand, believers believe they must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus.
Many people are baptized and don't believe.
That is rubbish. If they don't believe there is no way you can get them to be baptized. Each one of these believed (they received the word)...
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty
 
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