Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

[Fred]

it does not mention amniotic fluid.

It does not mention "baptism".

 

[Truther]

You are taking passages out of context... After baptism, one is sin free if they do not sin. If you hate the things of God then you are not in the kingdom.

I obtained remission of my sins as I obeyed Acts 2:38 back in 1979.

I would consider those that refuse this...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

...as hating the things of God.

Jesus died for us to obey Acts 2:38, so we could get our sins remitted.

We reject Acts 2:38 and we reject his death.

 

[Truther]

Who is the unbeliever that Philip refused to baptize?

He asked the Eunuch if he believed as a qualification to be baptized.

That was the litmus test to take the next step to find remission of sins via baptism, which explains why Jesus never expected unbelievers to get baptized by the church per Mark 16:16.

Anyone that thinks Jesus was saying "unbelievers that get baptized will be damned" are calling Jesus moronic.

 

[CrowCross]

I'm familiar with the alternative interpretations. But you can look in all of the existing first century Greek or even other languages, and you will not find a single example of the term for water used for amniotic fluid as an allusion to birth. It's far too easy just to point out that it doesn't happen in the Bible. It doesn't happen anywhere in ancient writings period. That's really an impossible explanation because it takes at least a 19th-century state of mind to even dream it up.

As to the connection of water to purification and washing ceremonies' connection to transformation that's all true. But the coincidance of the gift of the Holy Spirit and the purification ceremony are not mutually exclusive choices. I agree with the layered meaning, but I disagree with the false dichotomy.

And finally the connection of the story of the encounter with Nicodemus and what follows immediately following in verse 22 through the end of the chapter and the beginning of the next, I think it is just too obvious to ignore. It's all about baptism.

The verse doesn't even mention the description of water baptism.
Actually water associated with the Holy Spirit is the way I see it.

 

[Truther]

Believes an is baptized...then leaves out baptism when mentioned with does not believe. Christ is saying you need faith to be saved...not baptism as the reason it is omitted.

Many people are baptized and don't believe.

Funny, I have never met an unbeliever that got baptized in my life. I have been in evangelism for 43 years.

You guys baptize unbelievers?

Hold a gun on them or something?

 

[Truther]

Then it is obvious that unbelievers are not baptized.

We all know that faith comes by hearing...one believes what they heard and does it. We heard repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and did it. What did you hear?

It is omitted because unbelievers are not obedient to Jesus. They argue that baptism is not necessary. On the other hand, believers believe they must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus.

That is rubbish. If they don't believe there is no way you can get them to be baptized. Each one of these believed (they received the word)...
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

Correct, it will be a cold day in hell when an unbeliever will let you baptize them.

 

[CrowCross]

There you go.

it does not mention amniotic fluid. In any case, it is something that a person must do, not something that already happened.

It doesn't mention baptism waters. It simply says "water" which can also be a reference to the Holy Spirit.

It speaks of re-entering the womb..which is impossible which ties it into amniotic fluid a product of a human...some say you must be born of this water. Fortunatly humans qualify.

It cannot be what you are claiming...5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Clearly, it is two things happening to the person who wants to enter the kingdom. It says water and spirit. You are suggesting spirit and spirit.

They are two words that express the same thing. Gills says....baptism is never expressed by water only, without some additional word, which shows, that the ordinance of water baptism is intended. "water" is meant, in a figurative and metaphorical sense, the grace of God, as it is elsewhere; see Ezekiel 36:26.

 

[Fred]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

You left out the part in Acts 2:38 concerning receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him received the gift of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

 

[CrowCross]

Then it is obvious that unbelievers are not baptized.

There are many instances where unbelievers are baptized....often a teenager will "go along to get along" and get baptized.

There are also many cases where a saved believer goes through life and doesn't get baptized. You would claim that John 3:16 believer is lost.

 

[CrowCross]

You left out the part in Acts 2:38 concerning receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him received the gift of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

They tend to forget this biblical account.

I also believe in Acts 2:38 they believed and saved a verse before...they were cut to the heart.
OK Pete, we believe now what? Peter said, get saved because of the remissions of your sins.

 

[Truther]

You left out the part in Acts 2:38 concerning receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him received the gift of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

I was getting folks to focus on remission of their sins via baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

They tend to forget this biblical account.

I also believe in Acts 2:38 they believed and saved a verse before...they were cut to the heart.
OK Pete, we believe now what? Peter said, get saved because of the remissions of your sins.

Nope, "Pete" said this....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins....


...which you openly refuse to do.

 

[Truther]

There are many instances where unbelievers are baptized....often a teenager will "go along to get along" and get baptized.

There are also many cases where a saved believer goes through life and doesn't get baptized. You would claim that John 3:16 believer is lost.

So you invented a faith test to qualify folks to be baptized?

What is it called?

Is it online or a multiple choice?

Does it measure faith?

 

[Fred]

I was getting folks to focus on remission of their sins via baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Thie remission of sins took place with Cornelius and the Gentiles with him before they were water baptized.

 

[Truther]

Thie remission of sins took place with Cornelius and the Gentiles with him before they were water baptized.

Is that why Peter COMMANDED them to immediately get baptized in the name of Jesus, eerily similar to Acts 2:38?

 

[Fred]

Is that why Peter COMMANDED them to immediately get baptized in the name of Jesus

Yes. Christians are COMMANDED to do other things as well after they are saved.

 

[Truther]

Fred, did you, as a gentile, get baptized like the gentiles in Acts 10 at Peter's command also?

If not, why did you resist?

Not into Biblical commands?

 

[Truther]

Yes. Christians are COMMANDED to do other things as well after they are saved.

Not for you?...

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

 

[Fred]

Fred, did you, as a gentile, get baptized like the gentiles in Acts 10 at Peter's command also?

If not, why did you resist?

Not into Biblical commands?

Yes. I was saved and then water baptized.

I also obey the COMMAND to (1) partake of the Lord's Supper, and (2) pray in the name of Jesus, and (3) etc. etc.

 

[Fred]

Not for you?...

You are confused.

I obeyed the command to be water baptized after I was saved.