Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?

[Thistle]

Immersion in fire was judgment against those that did not turn to Christ. Fire was always a symbol of judgement throughout scripture. Immersion in fire is not an immersion one wants to experience.

That makes better sense of Matthew 3:11 than just about any thing I've heard.

 

[Cynthia]

No, Christian baptism is not the baptism of John.

Obviously not baptism is one thing repentance is another Acts 2:38.

We know what Christian baptism is comprised of, it's recorded in Acts 8:36 through 39.

Baptism doesn't have agency and it can't give anything; the Holy Spirit can give things. Of course in the book of Acts of the apostles and prophets did distribute miraculous gifts by the laying on of hands.

This is an inference people draw, but the Bible doesn't say that. I really don't see any authoritative reason to believe it.

If you mean spirit baptism as we read about in first Corinthians 12:13 that is part and parcel of literal baptism.

Of course not, Colossians 2:12 says we are saved in baptism by the powerful working of God who raised Christ from the dead. But nothing about that changes the fact that we are saved "in baptism."

You are splitting hairs and disagreeing with me on trivialities. You are saying that baptism by the Spirit and Spirit baptism is not the same thing. We cannot have a conversation, unfortunately. Goodby.

 

[Thistle]

You are splitting hairs

No these are substantive distinctions they have a direct impact on what the Bible says about the meaning and purpose of baptism.

and disagreeing with me on trivialities.

If I'm not mistaken you're arguing that there are at least two different baptisms in a literal sense. I'm saying that Ephesians 4:5 says that there's only one literal baptism and that's a substantive difference.

You are saying that baptism by the Spirit and Spirit baptism is not the same thing.

I'm saying that Spirit baptism which is mentioned in the first Corinthians 12:13 is part and parcel of a liberal Christian baptism. Apart from literal Christian baptism there is no Spirit baptism. That having been said, "baptism of the Holy Spirit" like we see in Act 2:1 through four is a miracle of the Holy Spirit, but the word baptism is being used in a analogical sense, so it is not a literal baptism, it is analogical baptism. And since analogies are by definition endless, that is to say there's absolutely no limit on the number of different things a person could be analogically baptized in, that would not mean that there is more than one literal Christian baptism ( Ephesians 4:5 ).

We cannot have a conversation, unfortunately. Goodby.

So you say…

 

[Kade Rystalmane]

That makes better sense of Matthew 3:11 than just about any thing I've heard.

Thanks! It's foreign to so many because of what they have been taught, but there was never a "good" immersion in fire. At Pentecost, that wasn't actually fire. It was like fire and it sat on their heads. It did not immerse them.

 

[Thistle]

Thanks! It's foreign to so many because of what they have been taught, but there was never a "good" immersion in fire. At Pentecost, that wasn't actually fire. It was like fire and it sat on their heads. It did not immerse them.

Good further clarification.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP,
Jesus Saves, who is the Holy Spirit. but the "Baptism ... OF", the Holy Spirit, places us into his, God, the Lord Jesus body the "LIVING CHURCH", (who are saved). or we receive a NEW BIRTH, or BIRTHRIGHT. supportive scripture, John 14:20: "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

and the Baptism ... "WITH", the Holy Spirit is for EMPOWERMENT as a result of our new birth, God, the Lord Jesus dwelling in us, and MANIFEST himself in us. supportive scripture, John 14:21: "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (just read Acts chapter 2.

PICJAC, 101G.

 

[Janice Bower]

I am saved by the BLOOD of Jesus. Nothing but the blood.

Romans 3
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

We are also kept by our Savior.

 

[Thistle]

I am saved by the BLOOD of Jesus. Nothing but the blood.

Romans 3
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

We are also kept by our Savior.

Amen sister! We are saved by the crosswork of Christ. Baptism is only the moment in which we except that gift. As Paul tells us we are saved by grace, through faith, in baptism.

"having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." - Colossians 2:12 ESV​

 

[Janice Bower]

Amen sister! We are saved by the crosswork of Christ. Baptism is only the moment in which we except that gift. As Paul tells us we are saved by grace, through faith, in baptism.

"having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." - Colossians 2:12 ESV​

I accepted Christ the second that the Holy Spirit regenerated me. Otherwise I wouldn't have requested Christian baptism.

 

[Thistle]

I accepted Christ the second that the Holy Spirit regenerated me. Otherwise I wouldn't have requested Christian baptism.

I take it for granted that the Holy Spirit did regenerate you. Believe the Bible . . . it happened in baptism.

"having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." - Colossians 2:12 ESV​

​

I value and respect your testimony. But to be clear, I believe the testimony of the Bible.

 

[Janice Bower]

I take it for granted that the Holy Spirit did regenerate you. Believe the Bible . . . it happened in baptism.

"having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." - Colossians 2:12 ESV​

​

I value and respect your testimony. But to be clear, I believe the testimony of the Bible.

You believe as you wish. Many Christians (God knows His sheep whom He has saved) disagree with your interpretation.

 

[Thistle]

You believe as you wish. Many Christians (God knows His sheep whom He has saved) disagree with your interpretation.

That's true. I take some small comfort in the fact that most evangelicals agree on more than what they disagree on.

 

[BJ Bear]

I am saved by the BLOOD of Jesus. Nothing but the blood.

Romans 3
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

We are also kept by our Savior.

It is through the blood of Christ that baptism does now save you, (1 Peter 3:21-22) Peter's later summary of the matter which he preached at Pentecost for the people to believe about Christ and baptism.

"“"This Jesus God has raised up, of which we all are witnesses." 33. "Therefore having being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear...
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39. "For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call."” (Act 2:32-33...38-39, EMTV)

People who deny the above in whole or in part necessarily preach a false faith, false Christ, and false baptism according to the clear witness of Scripture.

 

[Thistle]

It is through the blood of Christ that baptism does now save you, (1 Peter 3:21-22) Peter's later summary of the matter which he preached at Pentecost for the people to believe about Christ and baptism.

"“"This Jesus God has raised up, of which we all are witnesses." 33. "Therefore having being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear...
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39. "For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call."” (Act 2:32-33...38-39, EMTV)

People who deny the above in whole or in part necessarily preach a false faith, false Christ, and false baptism according to the clear witness of Scripture.

I always like to include verse 37 because it's so powerful "this Jesus whom you crucified God has made both Lord in Christ!" I think that this was the point of Peters message of which Luke says "and when they heard this they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the disciples 'men and brethren what shall we do!'" I have no doubt that some of the very people who are calling out before Pilate "crucify him, crucify him" were there in the crowd at Pentecost. That sermon that Peter delivered was absolutely breathtaking. You can only imagine the sadness and terror of the listeners. It literally gives me goosebumps when I read it.

 

[Janice Bower]

It is through the blood of Christ that baptism does now save you, (1 Peter 3:21-22) Peter's later summary of the matter which he preached at Pentecost for the people to believe about Christ and baptism.

"“"This Jesus God has raised up, of which we all are witnesses." 33. "Therefore having being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear...
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39. "For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call."” (Act 2:32-33...38-39, EMTV)

People who deny the above in whole or in part necessarily preach a false faith, false Christ, and false baptism according to the clear witness of Scripture.

The Holy Spirit had not been given prior to Pentecost and The Holy Spirit is with all Christians having enabled non-Christians to have faith.

 

[Thistle]

The Holy Spirit had not been given prior to Pentecost and The Holy Spirit is with all Christians having enabled non-Christians to have faith.

I totally agree with that. But just because the Holy Spirit is involved in the conversion process, it doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit's work in the conversion process is the same thing as people having the gift of the Holy Spirit. This latter idea "the gift of the Holy Spirit" is like the Holy Spirit changing His mailing address to your heart. That's the thing which is promised to occur at the moment of baptism.

 

[BJ Bear]

The Holy Spirit had not been given prior to Pentecost and The Holy Spirit is with all Christians having enabled non-Christians to have faith.

You are using other words to affirm that it is through the blood of Christ that baptism does now save you.

It is an error to try and separate faith from what we are given to believe in the Prophetic and Apostolic witness.

 

[Thistle]

You are using other words to affirm that it is through the blood of Christ that baptism does now save you.

It is an error to try and separate faith from what we are given to believe in the Prophetic and Apostolic witness.

That's well put.

 

[Slyzr]

You are using other words to affirm that it is through the blood of Christ that baptism does now save you.

It is an error to try and separate faith from what we are given to believe in the Prophetic and Apostolic witness.

agree .....

It was so-post to be the faith once given.

Built upon .........

 

[G. Duval]

My point is..
Mark 16:16 is a true statement and John the Baptist preached the one who comes after me will baptized in the Holy Spirit
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

WHY would Jesus say John only baptized in water after the Great commission ?Matthew 28:19 in ACTS 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

If Jesus in Matthew 28:19 was referring to water baptism Jesus would have said nothing about John baptizing with water in Acts 1:5 At that point everybody would have been baptizing in water.

What if Jesus was telling the 12 disciples in Matthew 28:19 ,what John the Baptist preached for JESUS would baptize in the name of the father son and Holy Spirit.

DOSE the baptism of the Holy Spirit save?

Holy Spirit descended on Christ Jesus similar to dove. Christ Jesus HAD Spirit while John just facilitated (technically , mechanically) for event to occur.