CrowCross
Super Member
Why would I need to dodge you????
Does the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..save ?
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You are not dodging me you are dodging the questions and the scriptures. Is this referring to the water baptism or baptism of the HS...?
Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
You and Fred are saying that you were saved before you were planted together with Christ. How does your version work and where is the supporting passage?
CrowCross
Super Member
Do you know ...if you're saved...all of your sins have been nailed to a cross that no longer exist?
Did you know baptism is a symbolic representation of Christ death, burial and resurrection...and when you undergo baptism you are publically telling people your agreement and association with the event of Jesus dieing, being buried and then rising from the dead.
Did you know according yo YOU....if you heard a street preacher proclaiming the gospel....accepted Jesus....then got killed by a beer truck on the way home.....you're still not saved because you wern't baptized yet.
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
You keep writing things that do not address what we are discussing. We are discussing baptism...
All past sins are forgiven at baptism.
Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The scripture does not say or teach that...Read Col 2 :11-13 very slowly
Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
There is no mention of accepting Jesus in the scripture. That is a protestant made up doctrine where one is told they must say a sinners' prayer to accept Jesus and be saved. That is not in the bible bro. You need to be baptized into Christ's death for the remission of sin. Read Col 2:11-13 very slowly...
CrowCross
Super Member
Jesus came and did things for us that we couldn't do...He fulfilled the law, was perfect and sinless, died in our place...and if baptism is a requirement Jesus even stood in the Jordon for us.
That makes no sense...why would Jesus ask us to be perfect if we couldn't do it?
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Where does the scripture say we couldn't die?
Where does the scripture say Jesus was baptized for you?
The law was given to the Jews and they could not fulfill the law.
Your misunderstanding of the scripture is not grounds for not making sense.
The premise of your post is you couldn't fulfill the law, you couldn't be perfect and sinless, you couldn't die and you couldn't be baptized. Therefore Jesus did those things for you.
So now you are required to fulfill the law...
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
You are required to be perfect and sinless
Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
You are required to be dead.
Romans 6:8
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
And you are required to be baptized
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
CrowCross
Super Member
Perhaps you should explain just what "perfect" means.
It appears to me your post is using the wrong nuance.
perhaps you should explain why you don't know?
It appears to me that you are questioning what Jesus said to do.
CrowCross
Super Member
Are you saying you can be a god? Perferct...all knowing, all powerful omni-present? Or would perfection mean something different? Perhaps it refers to maturity.
THAT ARE PAST., God never require a sinner to confess their sins in order to be SAVED. no, confessing of sins as said is for the saved. the only thing a sinner confess is God son, JESUS for salvation price is paid for by God. supportive scripture, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
the sinner sins, coming to God has been paid in full, (for he is our propitiation through faith in his blood) other words God take care of our past life when coming to him, that's God righteous act in our salvation.
Now what about the sins we .... MAY COMMITT after being SAVED? answer, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (READ THAT AGAIN) 1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
confession of sins is for Christians, (the Saved), and the confession of Jesus Christ is for the, (unsaved).
Hope that helped.
also, this, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
as said, one who is saved, (confess JESUS), SHOULD NOT BE PRACTICING SIN. other words as the Lord Jesus said, Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
the term PERFECT do not mean without sin, it means "GROW UP", become mature. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
another word for, or is synonyms with "perfect" is complete, maturity, full age, or excellent ect.....
Based on exactly what I wrote please explain how you arrived at that
Are you saying that perfect means all knowing, all powerful omni-present? I certainly did not say or assume that.
I did not say that either but it seem like you are
Of course, they are "past", if it is not committed it is not a sin to be forgiven.
What do you suppose a sinner confesses their sins for?
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If one is not forgiven their sins how shall they enter into the kingdom of God?
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
A saved person has no sins to confess. It is the sinner who has sins to confess.
So a sinner does not confess his sins to be forgiven as per 1Jn 1:9? Keep in mind Jn is speaking to the church.
The scripture does not support your nonsense...It says through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ. Redemption is not outside of Jesus Christ as you assume.
there is no way to avoid Rom 6:4
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
The sinner must come to God by Jesus Christ. He cannot get there on his own.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
You have the sinner coming to God first.
At that point, one can only sin if they are drawn away from Christ...James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
So you are assuming that a person can sin while in Christ and that is impossible.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
that is foolishness
where does it say... one who is saved, (confess JESUS)...
But it does not say to be perfect as a grown-up man does it? It says "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
but the context in which it is used suggests, wanting nothing necessary to completeness just as God is complete and needs nothing...another word for, or is synonyms with "perfect" is complete, maturity, full age, or excellent ect.....
But this is beside the point. Saved people are not sinners therefore a saved person cannot sin.
You have people saved outside of Jesus.
You have people going to God without going thriugh Jesus.
You have people sinning while in Christ.
did you ever sin before coming to Christ?
are u a sinner in Christ? u missed what I posted ...... didn't u.
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
I don't need to go any further with u........ good day.
CrowCross
Super Member
You don't seem to know what you're saying.
Do tell us what your definition of "perfect" is...and how it applies to the verse.
Truther
Well-known member
Good post. But I was on the subject of "confess Jesus" replacing Acts 2:38.THAT ARE PAST., God never require a sinner to confess their sins in order to be SAVED. no, confessing of sins as said is for the saved. the only thing a sinner confess is God son, JESUS for salvation price is paid for by God. supportive scripture, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
the sinner sins, coming to God has been paid in full, (for he is our propitiation through faith in his blood) other words God take care of our past life when coming to him, that's God righteous act in our salvation.
Now what about the sins we .... MAY COMMITT after being SAVED? answer, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (READ THAT AGAIN) 1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
confession of sins is for Christians, (the Saved), and the confession of Jesus Christ is for the, (unsaved).
Hope that helped.
also, this, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
as said, one who is saved, (confess JESUS), SHOULD NOT BE PRACTICING SIN. other words as the Lord Jesus said, Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
the term PERFECT do not mean without sin, it means "GROW UP", become mature. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
another word for, or is synonyms with "perfect" is complete, maturity, full age, or excellent ect.....
did I not say that? Repent is a change of MIND about God. meaning Confessing the Lord JESUS.
Everyone did that is why they are past sins.
One cannot be a sinner in Christ. That is impossible.
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
If you ask for your sins to be forgiven and they are forgiven, what sins do you have?
Then stay in your sin...I don't need to go any further with u........ good day.
I know what I said...You don't know what I am saying.
The term is perfect as our father in heaven is perfect. Therefore it is referring to complete and lacking nothing in relation to the father.
Truther
Well-known member
That's betterdid I not say that? Repent is a change of MIND about God. meaning Confessing the Lord JESUS.