Does the LDS church teach that men can evolve into a God?

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Good, you agree with your First Presidency.

I was beginning to wonder how many of my "yes" answers it would take to convince you of that.

As for the rest, no, the Bible is NOT congenial to what passes for the abysmally low theology and Christology of the LDS church. In fact, the Bible contradicts it all over the place, as Theo and I and others have proven.
Perhaps you could give us some examples of what is found in the Biblical text--which isn't found in the LDS churc h--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I have one for you:

James 2:24---King James Version
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Mormons must run away from all of the Bible verses that clearly show that there is only one true God in the universe. ONLY one.
Are you referring to these verses--which clearly separates out God the Son--from the "one God" of the Biblical NT?

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How do you respond to those testimonies?

How do you respond to these testimonies?

Psalm 82:1---King James Version
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

Psalm 82:6---King James Version

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86:8--King James Version
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
No, I was not discussing the ECFs.
But I was--and the Early Church Fathers preached, taught, and testified men may become gods. For centuries. Unitedly.

You did get my article?

Lutherans and the Early Church Fathers---https://lutheranreformation.org/history/lutherans-early-church-fathers/

"These men taught and wrote throughout the Roman Empire: from Judea to England; from northern Africa to Italy and Asia Minor. They are the leading teachers of the whole Church throughout the first eight centuries of Christian history, and the Lutherans claim them as their fathers in the faith.

One of the main reasons a child turns to his father is to find help and guidance. When the Lutherans quoted an Early Church father they were not merely staying connected to the past. They were in a fight over pure doctrine. So, as they drew their teaching from Scripture, they also turned to their fathers for help in the arguments with the Roman Church and with the radical protestants."

And please allow me to add--to help in the arguments within their own sect, as some deny what they taught.

YOU brought them up first, not I. I was discussing whether or not your church teaches that men can EVOLVE into Gods. Mormons on the last board said that your church does not teach that, but what I posted in the OP proves that it DOES. That was my sole purpose in posting the OP.
We are not on the old boards--and the Early Church Fathers did teach and testify men could become gods--and so did Christ and the Biblical writers testify of the reality of other gods:

Psalm 82:1---King James Version
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

Psalm 82:6---King James Version

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86:8--King James Version
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

So--who stands on the outside of that testimony--you--or the LDS?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
The ECFs are not the Bible; therefore, what they wrote must be judged in light of what the ENTIRE Bible says. Also, what they wrote must be taken in context.

Theo has put down the following on here several times:

1) The ECF's were strict MONOTHEISTS. So when they spoke of men "becoming gods", they were not speaking of actually becoming deities
And, to be sure---I believe you, or anyone else who takes that stance--will have a hard time defending it:

"... He Himself has made us sons of the Father, and deified men by becoming Himself man. Therefore He was not man, and then became God, but He was God, and then became man, and that to deify us. ... And if all that are called sons and gods, whether in earth or in heaven, were adopted and deified through the Word, and the Son Himself is the Word, it is plain that through Him are they all, ..." ( Athanasius of Alexandria. "Against the Arians 1:38-39. Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers. Ed. Phillip Schaff. Vol 4. New York: Christian Literature.1892. 329. Print. Ser.2)

Bump for Bonnie
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
What is your evidence mankind doesn't choose all God has in store for them--when they choose to follow Christ?
[/QUOTE]

It's your crazy cult that's making the claim. That means it's up to you to show us the evidence for your cult's claim.
 

Bonnie

Super Member

It's your crazy cult that's making the claim. That means it's up to you to show us the evidence for your cult's claim.
[/QUOTE]
This is true. The burden of proof is on THEM--not US.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
It's your crazy cult that's making the claim. That means it's up to you to show us the evidence for your cult's claim.
John 10:27-28---King James Version
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

That seems to indicate a process:

1) His sheep hear His voice
2) They follow Him
3) He gives them eternal life

How do you fit that into your theology?

Fits the LDS theology well.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I've explained your out-of-context "proof-texts" at least 10 times now, in the old boards and here.

In contrast, you keep RUNNING AWAY from all the Bible passages and ECF passages which teach that ONLY ONE GOD EXISTS.

Your refusal to address my responses, and your running away from the Bible, prove that YOU are the one with the false theology.
Yes, you have, and so have I and others. I will attest to that. Of course, what we post is nearly always ignored, and not dealt with.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
I have one for you:

James 2:24---King James Version
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
If you're so confident this verse says what you claim, then why did you choose to isolate it from the rest of the passage and post it out of context?

Not only does the rest of the passage show that v 24 is speaking of works as evidence of faith, not as a means of justification. In fact, had you been honest and posted the whole passage, you would have seen that the previous verse said that Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works, but that it was his faith that justified him, not his works.

This is why Mormons can't be trusted.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
I've explained your out-of-context "proof-texts" at least 10 times now, in the old boards and here.

In contrast, you keep RUNNING AWAY from all the Bible passages and ECF passages which teach that ONLY ONE GOD EXISTS.

Your refusal to address my responses, and your running away from the Bible, prove that YOU are the one with the false theology.
I think it might be time to invoke Proverbs 26:4 with dberrie.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
If you're so confident this verse says what you claim, then why did you choose to isolate it from the rest of the passage and post it out of context?

Not only does the rest of the passage show that v 24 is speaking of works as evidence of faith, not as a means of justification. In fact, had you been honest and posted the whole passage, you would have seen that the previous verse said that Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works, but that it was his faith that justified him, not his works.

This is why Mormons can't be trusted.
Warning for you, Mike...James 2:24 is a favorite "shtick" of a certain poster. Most of us will not respond to it, since it is off topic for my OP here, plus, we know from years of experience on here, that our Biblical texts and arguments about this are always ignored and all we get is repeat-itis, obfuscation, and deflection. Not to mention, out-of-context quotes. I had archived our arguments on this from several boards back, with links, but of course, they go nowhere now. That is all Mormons have though--repeat, quote out of context, obfuscate, deflect, and ignore our arguments and points. All to make it appear that they have won the debate when they have done no such thing.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I think it might be time to invoke Proverbs 26:4 with dberrie.
Or maybe it's time to answer the bell:

Psalm 82:1---King James Version
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

Psalm 82:6---King James Version

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86:8--King James Version
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Or maybe it's time to answer the bell:

Psalm 82:1---King James Version
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

Psalm 82:6---King James Version

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86:8--King James Version
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
If your cult believes those verses say you can become gods, then have at it. Didn't work out so well for Lucifer, though.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Warning for you, Mike...James 2:24 is a favorite "shtick" of a certain poster. Most of us will not respond to it, since it is off topic for my OP here, plus, we know from years of experience on here, that our Biblical texts and arguments about this are always ignored and all we get is repeat-itis, obfuscation, and deflection. Not to mention, out-of-context quotes. I had archived our arguments on this from several boards back, with links, but of course, they go nowhere now. That is all Mormons have though--repeat, quote out of context, obfuscate, deflect, and ignore our arguments and points. All to make it appear that they have won the debate when they have done no such thing.
Maybe Mormons aren't being dishonest. Maybe their magic underwear is too tight and it's cutting off the circulation to their brains.

In any event, I think it's time to invoke Proverbs 26:4 with this poster. He is not willing to listen or to be honest in his arguments.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
If you're so confident this verse says what you claim, then why did you choose to isolate it from the rest of the passage and post it out of context?
"out of context" is usually the claim of those whose theology is violated by the scriptures.

So--what is there about the testimony of the scriptures which you believe is "out of context"?

James 2:24---King James Version
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

How does one collate faith alone theology with the testimony of the Savior--who testified all men will be judged according to their works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Not only does the rest of the passage show that v 24 is speaking of works as evidence of faith, not as a means of justification.
Interesting:

James 2:21---King James Version
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Or--is that just another "out of context" passage?

In fact, had you been honest and posted the whole passage, you would have seen that the previous verse said that Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works, but that it was his faith that justified him, not his works.

This is why Mormons can't be trusted.
I was thinking the Bible could be trusted--and it doesn't fit your postulations:

James 2:21---King James Version
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

As to an additional note:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
In another thread, you said people can choose to be saved. If people can choose to be saved, then why do they have to wait for "Heavenly Father" to make them gods? Why can't they just choose to be gods like they chose to be saved?
They choose to be saved by choosing to follow God, repent of their sins, exercise faith, believe in Jesus Christ, and keeping his commandments. Salvation itself is a gift from God which he bestows upon them; and deification, or becoming gods, is an integral part of that gift of salvation which God bestows on those who choose to love God and keep his commandments.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
If your cult believes those verses say you can become gods, then have at it. Didn't work out so well for Lucifer, though.
I agree--with a distinction:

2 Corinthians 4:4---New Living Translation

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
If your cult believes those verses say you can become gods, then have at it.
Those verses not only testify of becoming--but that they ARE existing gods:

Psalm 82:1---King James Version
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

Psalm 82:6---King James Version

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86:8--King James Version
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

How do you explain that?
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
I've explained your out-of-context "proof-texts" at least 10 times now, in the old boards and here.

In contrast, you keep RUNNING AWAY from all the Bible passages and ECF passages which teach that ONLY ONE GOD EXISTS.

Your refusal to address my responses, and your running away from the Bible, prove that YOU are the one with the false theology.
This what he does and we several of us have refused to participate in any discussions with him.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
I was beginning to wonder how many of my "yes" answers it would take to convince you of that.


Perhaps you could give us some examples of what is found in the Biblical text--which isn't found in the LDS churc h--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I have one for you:

James 2:24---King James Version
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Are you referring to these verses--which clearly separates out God the Son--from the "one God" of the Biblical NT?

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How do you respond to those testimonies?

How do you respond to these testimonies?

Psalm 82:1---King James Version
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

Psalm 82:6---King James Version

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Psalm 86:8--King James Version
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
And I see the poster is back to his predictable diversion from the topic, resurrecting verses that don't relate to the thread topic.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
And I see the poster is back to his predictable diversion from the topic, resurrecting verses that don't relate to the thread topic.
And I might see there are still some here who will criticize and ridicule--without even giving the slightest hint of what they are referring to, specifically.

Care to engage the scriptures, or retorts --with something other than an attack--or give us a explanation as to what you are specifically referring to?

Otherwise--it amounts to little more than a drive by shouting, IMO.
 
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