Does the LDS church teach that men can evolve into a God?

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Prove it, Zerinus.
For me--the critics don't seem very anxious to discuss the Biblical text.

Bonnie--you had quite a number of posts here--I went back, and could not find one Biblical verse you quoted on your own.

Contrary to that--I posted a Biblical verse 63 times.(or so I counted).

That makes a loud statement, IMO.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
For me--the critics don't seem very anxious to discuss the Biblical text.

Bonnie--you had quite a number of posts here--I went back, and could not find one Biblical verse you quoted on your own.

Either you didn't look very hard, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting her.
I know for a FACT that she quoted Luke 7:50 to you MULTIPLE times.

And I have posted TONS of Biblical passages for you, that you constantly RUN AWAY from.

At least 20+ passages which teach "only one god exists".
At least 5-6 passages which teach "faith alone".
Not to mention Rom. 3:19-20 multiple times, Gal. 3:24-25 multiple times, and many others.

Perhaps you don't count mere citations, and one count if we FULLY QUOTE the text, and frankly I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other.

The FACT of the matter is that your claim about the "critics" is false.
Either you are ignorant of that, not paying attention.
Or else you are knowingly misrepresenting us.

Contrary to that--I posted a Biblical verse 63 times.(or so I counted).

<Chuckle>

You posted ONE "Biblical verse" over and over again (which we've already addressed).

And you think you should get brownie points for repeating the same post ten million times?

What a laugh.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Either you didn't look very hard, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting her.
I know for a FACT that she quoted Luke 7:50 to you MULTIPLE times.
Cite, please--on those multiple Bible verse quotes. Bonnie, that I am aware of--posted zero Biblical quotes here. I don't think Luke7:50 was even mentioned in this thread, much less quoted.

But I welcome your evidence to prove me wrong on the multiple quotes.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
So--were the Early Church Fathers describing some sort of evolution?

Justin - Dial. 124 ...thereby it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming "gods", and of having power to become sons of the Highest. (ANF 1.262).

Irenaeus - Adv. Her. 5.Pref ...the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself. (ANF 1.526).

Tertullian - Adv. Hermogenes 5 Well, then, you say, we ourselves at that rate possess nothing of God. But indeed we do, and shall continue to do—only it is from Him that we receive it, and not from ourselves. For we shall be even gods, if we shall deserve to be among those of whom He declared, “I have said, Ye are gods,” and “God standeth in the congregation of the gods.” But this comes of His own grace, not from any property in us, because it is He alone who can make gods. (ANF 3.480).

Clement of Alexandria - Exhortation 1 ...the Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God. (ANF 2.174).

Hippolytus - Refutation of All Heresies 5.29 The Creator did not wish to make him a god, and failed in His aim; nor an angel,—but a man. For if He had willed to make thee a god, He could have done so. Thou hast the example of the Logos. His will, however, was, that you should be a man, and He has made thee a man. But if thou art desirous of also becoming a god, obey Him that has created thee. (ANF 5.151).

Origen - Comm. on John 2.2,3 ...the Savior says in His prayer to the Father, "That they may know Thee the only true God;" but that all beyond the Very God is made God by participation in His divinity...And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with God, and to attract to Himself divinity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other gods beside Him, of whom God is the God, as it is written, "The God of gods, the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth." It was by the offices of the first-born that they became gods, for He drew from God in generous measure that they should be made gods, and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true God, then, is "The God", and those who are formed after Him are gods, images, as it were of Him the prototype. ...Now it is possible that some may dislike what we have said representing the Father as the one true God, but admitting other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God. They may fear that the glory of Him who surpasses all creation may be lowered to the level of those other beings called gods. We drew this distinction between Him and them that we showed God the Word to be to all the other gods the minister of their divinity. (ANF 10.323).
I base my beliefs on what God said. Not on anyone else’s commentary.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
For me--the critics don't seem very anxious to discuss the Biblical text.

Bonnie--you had quite a number of posts here--I went back, and could not find one Biblical verse you quoted on your own.

Contrary to that--I posted a Biblical verse 63 times.(or so I counted).

That makes a loud statement, IMO.
Is this some kind of contest to you, to see who quotes the Bible the most? This is a discussion board where we discuss mormonism. Can you do that?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Is this some kind of contest to you, to see who quotes the Bible the most? This is a discussion board where we discuss mormonism. Can you do that?

That's my point--how does one jump over the Bible--and still claim they are Christian?

IE--The critic comes here to tell the LDS how unChristian they are--and don't even use the Bible, or use it very little?
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
Warning for you, Mike...James 2:24 is a favorite "shtick" of a certain poster. Most of us will not respond to it, since it is off topic for my OP here, plus, we know from years of experience on here, that our Biblical texts and arguments about this are always ignored and all we get is repeat-itis, obfuscation, and deflection. Not to mention, out-of-context quotes. I had archived our arguments on this from several boards back, with links, but of course, they go nowhere now. That is all Mormons have though--repeat, quote out of context, obfuscate, deflect, and ignore our arguments and points. All to make it appear that they have won the debate when they have done no such thing.
And don't forget... the poster's admitted purpose on here just to have fun and not be serious. Was on the old boards. Probably still have the saved post somewhere. Re-did the computer and had issues.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
That's my point--how does one jump over the Bible--and still claim they are Christian?

IE--The critic comes here to tell the LDS how unChristian they are--and don't even use the Bible, or use it very little?
I have quoted the Bible MANY times in discussions with you. To back up Christian beliefs, and disprove Mormon doctrines. I guess you forgot, eh? Or maybe were not on the boards then...? I have archived a few examples. I can trot them it when they are relevant to our discussions.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Cite, please--on those multiple Bible verse quotes. Bonnie, that I am aware of--posted zero Biblical quotes here. I don't think Luke7:50 was even mentioned in this thread, much less quoted.

But I welcome your evidence to prove me wrong on the multiple quotes.
Luke 7:50 is not the subject of this thread. Hence, why I did not quote it. But Theo quoted multip,e verses about there being only one Go--did you miss those?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I have quoted the Bible MANY times in discussions with you. To back up Christian beliefs, and disprove Mormon doctrines. I guess you forgot, eh?
That is the second time you made that claim in as many threads.

I went back and counted--there was not one single Biblical thread you quoted in this entire thread. That's the same conclusion that the count in the other thread produced.

Again--you claim to use the Bible "many times". Bonnie--zero does not equal "many times". If you want to talk effectively to me--please use your Bible. It's the Christian way.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
I have quoted the Bible MANY times in discussions with you. To back up Christian beliefs, and disprove Mormon doctrines. I guess you forgot, eh? Or maybe were not on the boards then...? I have archived a few examples. I can trot them it when they are relevant to our discussions.
He was on the boards. He knows. He’s playing games.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
He was on the boards. He knows. He’s playing games.
I was there--and I say her style has not changed. There are no Biblical quotes here from that person--and there were few there.

As I have maintained---the critics here do not quote Biblical verses as often as some claim. Some have very little to do with the Bible.

I counted me quoting a Biblical verse over 60 times--in this thread alone. Her--zero.

How is that playing games?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
And I say she has consistently cited Bible verses when it applies to the actual discussion. She doesn’t have to cite them over and over at your demand just because you want to change the topic. You have a one-track record of changing every subject to your obsession with “faith alone.” The rest of us can actually carry on conversations about other things.

Your boast about quoting a Bible verse over 60 times in this thread alone is just evidence of that obsession. No one has to play into that.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
And I say she has consistently cited Bible verses when it applies to the actual discussion. She doesn’t have to cite them over and over at your demand just because you want to change the topic. You have a one-track record of changing every subject to your obsession with “faith alone.” The rest of us can actually carry on conversations about other things.

Your boast about quoting a Bible verse over 60 times in this thread alone is just evidence of that obsession. No one has to play into that.
Thank you, Magdalena. The Bible isn't the subject of this thread--the LDS's teaching on men evolving into gods IS. Of course, I can put down all of the Bible verses that prove that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, as I and Theo have done, many times, but they always are ignored.

Just quoting more bible verses in a thread than someone else does is no proof that that person has the truth, or has won the debate, etc. As you have noted, it is usually done in an effort to change the subject of the OP into something the poster would rather discuss. And not have to deal with what is in the OP. The "contradictions" thread I started is a perfect example of that.

Also, quoting Bible verses doesn't mean that the person interprets them correctly, or applies them correctly. Look at what Satan did when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness. He quoted scripture to Jesus and did so accurately, to try to make Jesus sin. But Jesus quoted MORE scripture, to prove that Satan MISUSED the scriptures and misapplied them. That is what Mormons do all the time--misapply and misuse scriptures, in an attempt to support their heretical doctrines.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Either you didn't look very hard, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting her.
I know for a FACT that she quoted Luke 7:50 to you MULTIPLE times.

And I have posted TONS of Biblical passages for you, that you constantly RUN AWAY from.

At least 20+ passages which teach "only one god exists".
At least 5-6 passages which teach "faith alone".
Not to mention Rom. 3:19-20 multiple times, Gal. 3:24-25 multiple times, and many others.

Perhaps you don't count mere citations, and one count if we FULLY QUOTE the text, and frankly I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other.

The FACT of the matter is that your claim about the "critics" is false.
Either you are ignorant of that, not paying attention.
Or else you are knowingly misrepresenting us.



<Chuckle>

You posted ONE "Biblical verse" over and over again (which we've already addressed).

And you think you should get brownie points for repeating the same post ten million times?

What a laugh.
Yes, you have quoted the Bible multiple times on here. I am a witness to that.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
You might want to relate that to Theo:
I did quote Luke 7:50 many times--on my thread about what Markk wrote two boards ago.

This thread is about your church teaching that men can evolve into gods. Mormons on the last board said that wasn't true, that I was misrepresenting what their church teaches. I proved right from lds.org that I was correct. You agreed with what they wrote. Another Mormon on here apparently does not. The purpose of this thread was about what your church teaches. Not about the Bible.

Of course, it is totally wrong about that. The Bible teaches there is ONLY ONE GOD. God Himself says that no God came before Him and none will be formed after Him. Which means no Mormons are going to become exalted gods and create their own worlds and populate them with their own spirit progeny.

BUT--to counteract that blasphemous belief, here are 28 verses from the Bible that proclaim only one God-deity--exists:


1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

6. 2 KINGS 5:15
— And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

12. Isaiah 37:16,20
— O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

14. Isaiah44:6,8
— Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

17. Hosea 13:4
— Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

18. Joel 2:27
— And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, andthat there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

25. Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

27. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
And I say she has consistently cited Bible verses when it applies to the actual discussion.
If that is your opinion--you are welcome to it.

As I have shown--the posted has not quoted one Biblical verse in this thread--nor in another thread which this was discussed.

It's my opinion that specific Biblical verses are discussed very little here by the critics, and when they are--the critics do very poorly.
 
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