Does the LDS church teach that men can evolve into a God?

zerinus

Well-known member
Fine, then use scriptural text and limit your belief to the term "becoming gods" to be precise, and stop inserting terms that aren't there that mean different things to different people.
I'm proposing, that we check understanding of those we serve, and "walk a mile twain" by going to the level they are at rather than treat them like we want them to be at. I never said anything about compromising our doctrine. In this day and age, you wouldn't go out into the street and loudly call a black person a "Negro" within a group of people. In fact, you probably wouldn't say at all and expect people to receive it with the highest and noblest intent, by justifying it with "What? 'Negro' = 'Black person' - there's nothing wrong with that." Yet, a hundred years ago, you could probably get away with it.
You're either seeking to gather or scatter - to either help the work or hinder it.
That is not a valid comparison. Deification is not a pejorative term. I am as comfortable with deification, as I am with theosis, divinization, or becoming gods.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Right before the last boards crashed and burned, I put down on here that in Mormon theology, man can evolve into a God.
It is not a matter of evolution, but yes, we believe that we can be like God and participate in his work of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
So, I was correct in this "evolve into a God" assertion I made on the last boards. Their First Presidency made that very claim.
The word "evolve" before Darwinism expanded it's meaning to mean to change from one form to another, it was generally understood to simply mean grow. It is clear from the article and the section you quoted that the authors of the article understood it in that sense.

We are not changing from one species to another. We are already that species and are simply growing up. That is not what the word evolve means today.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
We are not changing from one species to another. We are already that species and are simply growing up.

And that is simply UNBLIBLICAL.

And the fact that you have to REJECT the Biblical testimony, and try to resort to quoting ECF's (out of context) speaks volumes.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
And that is simply UNBLIBLICAL.

And the fact that you have to REJECT the Biblical testimony, and try to resort to quoting ECF's (out of context) speaks volumes.
You are entitled to your opinion. The Bible teaches that we are the offspring of God. I don't know how much clearer it has to be for one to grasp the meaning that we are God's children. Now apply that to the article that Bonnie referenced in her OP and you might begin to understand why we believe what we do.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You are entitled to your opinion. The Bible teaches that we are the offspring of God.

You don't seem to understand what "offspring" means.

I don't know how much clearer it has to be for one to grasp the meaning that we are God's children.

We are God's children by ADOPTION (Rom. 8:5, Eph. 1:5, Gal. 1:5).
I'm sorry for your IGNORANCE of the Bible.

If a Chinese couple ADOPTS a white baby, that does NOT make the baby "Chinese".
If God adopts humans as His children, that does NOT make those humans "godlets".

Now apply that to the article that Bonnie referenced in her OP and you might begin to understand why we believe what we do.

I perfectly understand why you believe as you do.
It's because you reject the Bible, and instead follow the false prophet Joseph Smith.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
I don't care so much about exaltation, it's nice, but a bonus. I'm asking about salvation.

The Christ I believe in is described here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...anual/34190/34190_000_WWC_27-LivingChrist.pdf

It's the belief of deification that I'm challenging against my fellow Mormons. Yet, I also don't subscribe that God is a different race than us, either. We are his children.

The debate is pivotal on if Jesus was created or not. I don't believe He was created. There's not scriptural evidence to support that, but he did have to progress and grow in some degree in mortality as we do. Else why is the Father called "the Father" and the Son called "the Son."?
He is co-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. One God, three persons. Historical Christianity. He didn't need to progress in anything. He took on human form voluntarily (Philippians 2). He grew and lived as a man, but He did not need to progress to "godhood", as he was both God and man (hypostatic union). See Psalm 110 and Mark 12:26.

We are only God's children by faith in Christ. Simply being born on the earth does not make you a child of God. All are not His children as the following three sections of scripture say.


That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
(Romans 9:8-9 NKJV)


For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:26-29 NKJV)


In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
(1 John 3:10 NKJV)
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
It is not a universal salvation. There are degrees of glory, but it a universal salvation.

Or maybe you do.

The same as in Mormonism.

In Mormon theology, eternity and infinity are divine attributes that can be acquired. If you find it hard to wrap your head around that, why is that our problem?
You are either missing a word or you have contradicted yourself on "universal salvation". Which is it-- universal salvation where eveyone goes to one of three stages of the afterlife (four if to outer darkness) and no hell or heaven or hell as the only options?

In christianity there is only heaven or hell. A person will spend eternity in one or the other. The state is either acquired by faith in the biblical Jesus or a rejection of the biblical Jesus.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Fine, then use scriptural text and limit your belief to the term "becoming gods" to be precise, and stop inserting terms that aren't there that mean different things to different people.
I'm proposing, that we check understanding of those we serve, and "walk a mile twain" by going to the level they are at rather than treat them like we want them to be at. I never said anything about compromising our doctrine. In this day and age, you wouldn't go out into the street and loudly call a black person a "Negro" within a group of people. In fact, you probably wouldn't say at all and expect people to receive it with the highest and noblest intent, by justifying it with "What? 'Negro' = 'Black person' - there's nothing wrong with that." Yet, a hundred years ago, you could probably get away with it.
You're either seeking to gather or scatter - to either help the work or hinder it.

Joseph Smith was clear only ONE GOD exists pre-1836

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris


1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.


Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. Joseph Smith translation

Moses 1:6

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
You are either missing a word or you have contradicted yourself on "universal salvation". Which is it-- universal salvation where eveyone goes to one of three stages of the afterlife (four if to outer darkness) and no hell or heaven or hell as the only options?
In Mormonism, heaven is graded, it is not all one place. There are three degrees of glory. Although modern revelation does not specifically say so, I believe that hell is also graded. Everyone who goes to hell does not suffer the same punishment. Some are beaten with "few stripes," while others with "many stripes". Also, hell is not permanent for everyone. Some "come out thence" after they have paid the "uttermost farthing," while others who have committed the unpardonable sin, don't. But there is no "universal salvation". There are those who have committed the unpardonable sin, who are never "saved" at all. And "outer darkness" is a wrong vocabulary that many Church members have gotten used to, but it is not a term that is rightly applicable to the post resurrection state of the damned.
In christianity there is only heaven or hell. A person will spend eternity in one or the other.
Agreed, but it is incorrect, and not biblical. The Bible clearly teaches that not everyone who goes to heaven receives the same reward, nor everyone who goes to hell receives the same punishment. Some receive greater rewards in heaven than others; and some are beaten with fewer stripes in hell than others. Some "come out thence" after they have paid the "uttermost farthing," while others who have committed the unpardonable sin don't come out at all. They shall not have "forgiveness in this life, or the next". That implies the possibility of having your sins forgiven in the next life, not just in this life. Some are forgiven in the next life after they have paid the price of their sins; while others are not.
The state is either acquired by faith in the biblical Jesus or a rejection of the biblical Jesus.
The biblical doctrine is that ultimately all are judged according to their works, "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29) Your Calvinistic theology is leading you astray.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
That is a ludicrous claim, not to be taken seriously.
So, suppose I joined a cult, like an actual cult.
And the founder of my cult claims he did more for the salvation of man than Jesus Christ. And I accuse your Church of misunderstanding the scriptures, and moreover, your scriptures can’t be trusted for salvation - there’s hidden knowledge that you must have from me to gain salvation.
And salvation, is really becoming like God. Well, actually, God isnt really anyone special. He’s just a man, like me or you, but he became God by these ritual practices also, and you can too - Just read my book.
And you’re like “Ummm...no.” And I respondwith “What? Your scriptures talk about deification, my book talk about deification. Therefore, must be true.”

Is there any degree, in this example, talking about deification that’s going to persuade you that I’m right and your wrong?

What I’m talking about is perception. This is the Christian experience. Someone has already come in a poisoned the well, so when we come in and get bold about our unique doctrines, we are only reinforcing their false ideas about our beliefs. A common ground needs to be established first. Missionaries usually don’t proselyte by handing out free copies of the D&C.

So, I suppose you’re right. Talking about deification isn’t offensive, edit
 
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Aaron32

Well-known member
Joseph Smith was clear only ONE GOD exists pre-1836

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris


1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.


Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. Joseph Smith translation

Moses 1:6

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.
I agree. There is only one God. The “gods” that men will become are “priests and kings unto the Most High God, that will continue to love God by serving others.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
In Mormonism, heaven is graded, it is not all one place. There are three degrees of glory. Although modern revelation does not specifically say so, I believe that hell is also graded. Everyone who goes to hell does not suffer the same punishment. Some are beaten with "few stripes," while others with "many stripes". Also, hell is not permanent for everyone. Some "come out thence" after they have paid the "uttermost farthing," while others who have committed the unpardonable sin, don't. But there is no "universal salvation". There are those who have committed the unpardonable sin, who are never "saved" at all. And "outer darkness" is a wrong vocabulary that many Church members have gotten used to, but it is not a term that is rightly applicable to the post resurrection state of the damned.

Agreed, but it is incorrect, and not biblical. The Bible clearly teaches that not everyone who goes to heaven receives the same reward, nor everyone who goes to hell receives the same punishment. Some receive greater rewards in heaven than others; and some are beaten with fewer stripes in hell than others. Some "come out thence" after they have paid the "uttermost farthing," while others who have committed the unpardonable sin don't come out at all. They shall not have "forgiveness in this life, or the next". That implies the possibility of having your sins forgiven in the next life, not just in this life. Some are forgiven in the next life after they have paid the price of their sins; while others are not.

The biblical doctrine is that ultimately all are judged according to their works, "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29) Your Calvinistic theology is leading you astray.
Firstly, I am not a Calvinist. Rewards are given to believers and believers only who have placed their faith and trust in the Biblical Jesus. Works are not a requirement to get to heaven nor something to be graded on in order to get there. See Ephesians 2:8-9. Verse 10 of that chapter of Ephesians then says we are created for good works, which is after saving faith in Christ. It is that where rewards will be based. Salvation to heaven will not, neither will damnation to hell.

There will be differing rewards for believers. That is all. It will be the same heaven and eternal life. That is biblical. Hell will be the same except eternal punishment for those who have rejected the Holy Spirit's drawing to a saving faith in Jesus. There is no second chance to get out of hell. If you look at the end of the book of Revelation, you will see the final judgement scene. Those judged out of the "books" of works essentially, are eternally damned. Those judged out of the Book of Life are eternally living with the Triune God. One group is judged by faith and the other by their works. The ones by their works will spend eternity with the devil, his angels, the Antichrist and False prophet in the lake of fire. That is biblical.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Firstly, I am not a Calvinist. Rewards are given to believers and believers only who have placed their faith and trust in the Biblical Jesus. Works are not a requirement to get to heaven nor something to be graded on in order to get there. See Ephesians 2:8-9. Verse 10 of that chapter of Ephesians then says we are created for good works, which is after saving faith in Christ. It is that where rewards will be based. Salvation to heaven will not, neither will damnation to hell.

There will be differing rewards for believers. That is all. It will be the same heaven and eternal life. That is biblical. Hell will be the same except eternal punishment for those who have rejected the Holy Spirit's drawing to a saving faith in Jesus. There is no second chance to get out of hell. If you look at the end of the book of Revelation, you will see the final judgement scene. Those judged out of the "books" of works essentially, are eternally damned. Those judged out of the Book of Life are eternally living with the Triune God. One group is judged by faith and the other by their works. The ones by their works will spend eternity with the devil, his angels, the Antichrist and False prophet in the lake of fire. That is biblical.
Thank you. We will just have to agree to disagree I guess. But I hope that you found my clarification of our doctrines helpful.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
It is not a matter of evolution, but yes, we believe that we can be like God and participate in his work of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
Read the OP and what I bolded. Your First Presidency clearly wrote: " Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of EVOLVING into a God."
 

The Prophet

Active member
Firstly, I am not a Calvinist. Rewards are given to believers and believers only who have placed their faith and trust in the Biblical Jesus. Works are not a requirement to get to heaven nor something to be graded on in order to get there. See Ephesians 2:8-9. Verse 10 of that chapter of Ephesians then says we are created for good works, which is after saving faith in Christ. It is that where rewards will be based. Salvation to heaven will not, neither will damnation to hell.

There will be differing rewards for believers. That is all. It will be the same heaven and eternal life. That is biblical. Hell will be the same except eternal punishment for those who have rejected the Holy Spirit's drawing to a saving faith in Jesus. There is no second chance to get out of hell. If you look at the end of the book of Revelation, you will see the final judgement scene. Those judged out of the "books" of works essentially, are eternally damned. Those judged out of the Book of Life are eternally living with the Triune God. One group is judged by faith and the other by their works. The ones by their works will spend eternity with the devil, his angels, the Antichrist and False prophet in the lake of fire. That is biblical.
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