Does the LDS church teach that men can evolve into a God?

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
I was there--and I say her style has not changed. There are no Biblical quotes here from that person--and there were few there.

As I have maintained---the critics here do not quote Biblical verses as often as some claim. Some have very little to do with the Bible.

I counted me quoting a Biblical verse over 60 times--in this thread alone. Her--zero.

How is that playing games?
Nephi's statement “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do”
 

The Prophet

Active member
Nephi's statement “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do”
jopzjGS.jpg
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
That is the second time you made that claim in as many threads.

I went back and counted--there was not one single Biblical thread you quoted in this entire thread. That's the same conclusion that the count in the other thread produced.

Again--you claim to use the Bible "many times". Bonnie--zero does not equal "many times". If you want to talk effectively to me--please use your Bible. It's the Christian way.
Notice
You seem afraid to quote from your ring leaders JST faux translation. Is there a problem?
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
And I might see there are still some here who will criticize and ridicule--without even giving the slightest hint of what they are referring to, specifically.

Care to engage the scriptures, or retorts --with something other than an attack--or give us a explanation as to what you are specifically referring to?

Otherwise--it amounts to little more than a drive by shouting, IMO.
We are accustomed to Mormons pushing KJV and rejecting the cobbled up joseph smith JST
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Where did you copy that from?
Five years ago Biblos posted something similar on here, about the three levels of heaven, basing it only on the Bible, quoting Bible verses to back him up. He did not give the Hebrew names for them, but the conclusion is the same.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Five years ago Biblos posted something similar on here, about the three levels of heaven, basing it only on the Bible, quoting Bible verses to back him up. He did not give the Hebrew names for them, but the conclusion is the same.
Well, we know that in our Father’s house are many mansions. But we also know we will live in His Kingdom with Him. Mormons believe that He only dwells in the highest level of the celestial kingdom, so everyone else is out of luck. They believe that Christ will visit other kingdoms. But not the Father.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Five years ago Biblos posted something similar on here, about the three levels of heaven, basing it only on the Bible, quoting Bible verses to back him up. He did not give the Hebrew names for them, but the conclusion is the same.
, The Bible says Paradise is in the third heaven or where God dwells:


1st Heaven is Rakia to a Jew it is the atmospheric heaven found in Jer 8:7, 10:13

Isa 55:10. it is were the birds fly clouds, made on 2nd day


2nd heaven shamayim to a Jew it is the starry heaven found in Jer 44:17,25; Psalm 8:3


3rd heaven shemi Hashamayim it is the heaven where God dwells found in 1 Kings 8:27, Deut. 26:15, 2 Chron 6:33 Eccl. 5:2


This passage below says Paradise is in the third heaven


2 Corth 12:

1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


REV 22: 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Five years ago Biblos posted something similar on here, about the three levels of heaven, basing it only on the Bible, quoting Bible verses to back him up. He did not give the Hebrew names for them, but the conclusion is the same.

I've done so many times as well.

Biblically, the Hebrew word for "heaven" is "shamayim", and the Greek word is "ouranos".
From "The Prophet's" post, it seems that Jews have made more precise terms (eg. "hashamayim" as distinct from "shamayim".

In Hebrew:

Gen. 1:26 "... the birds of the <shamayim>" = "sky", "air"
Gen. 22:17 "... as the stars of <shamayim>" = "space"
Gen. 24:3 "... the God of <shamayim>"

In Greek:

Luke 13:19 "... the birds of the <ouranos>" = "sky", "air"
Rev. 9:1 "... a star fallen from <ouranos>" = "space"
Matt. 6:9 "... our Father in <ouranos>"
 

Bonnie

Super Member
If you don't think it means children then I believe that it is you who doesn't seem to understand what offspring means.

That is not the context in which Paul uses the term.
Oh, yes it is. We become God's children by ADOPTION, not by procreation between HF and some unnamed HM, in the pre-mortal existence. Here are a couple of examples:

Ephesians 1:5 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-

Romans 8:14-19 14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. 18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

Have you forgotten John 1?

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.


To all who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, He gives the right to BECOME the children of God. IF we were ALREADY God's literal spirit children in the supposed, pre-mortal spirit existence, then why would anyone need the right to BECOME God's children? I am my parents' daughter by birth...why would I need the right to BECOME their child, when I already am?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Well, we know that in our Father’s house are many mansions. But we also know we will live in His Kingdom with Him. Mormons believe that He only dwells in the highest level of the celestial kingdom, so everyone else is out of luck. They believe that Christ will visit other kingdoms. But not the Father.
So the other kingdoms, except outer darkness, cannot be damnation, if Jesus visits there. The whole concept in Mormonism is screwy, anyway. There is only one heaven, and one hell. Period.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
Oh, yes it is. We become God's children by ADOPTION, not by procreation between HF and some unnamed HM, in the pre-mortal existence. Here are a couple of examples:



Have you forgotten John 1?




To all who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, He gives the right to BECOME the children of God. IF we were ALREADY God's literal spirit children in the supposed, pre-mortal spirit existence, then why would anyone need the right to BECOME God's children? I am my parents' daughter by birth...why would I need the right to BECOME their child, when I already am?
Now that simply make too much sense, Bonnie. You are reading what the biblical text says and not reading something into it that doesn't exist.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
"After all we can do" means "in spite of all we can do".
No, that is not what "after" means. And your church's own website agrees with us, under its Bible dictionary, under "grace."


Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the Fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, AFTER all we can do”

This does NOT say "in SPITE of all we can do." It says "AFTER." And NOT without "total effort" on our part.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
No, that is not what "after" means. And your church's own website agrees with us, under its Bible dictionary, under "grace."


This does NOT say "in SPITE of all we can do." It says "AFTER." And NOT without "total effort" on our part.
That statement is incorrect in its interpretation of that scripture. It is true that we still need to keep the commandments of God to be saved; but the correct meaning of that scripture is the one I gave.
 
Top