Does the morning-after-pill count as abortion?

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BMS

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
And this does not matter because none of the child's rights are violated.

And the moment it does, it will matter.

Never had an unwanted pregnancy, then...

Irrelevant - the important point is that she is pregnant, and doesn't want to be.
The past is the past.
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Yes that is right, she is pregnant. The past is the past.
Yes thats right he did rob a bank. Nevermind, the past is the past, now he is rich.😉

Jesus said go and sin no more. Repent.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Temujin said:
Not quite. The law is the way it is for reasons. It isn't just an arbitrary decision to be reversed on the flip of a coin. Legislative bodies debated the rights and wrongs of such a law, the benefits and detrimental effects to individuals and society as a whole. To reverse the legal decision,you need to reopen the debate and produce new arguments and new evidence that the original decision was wrong

Abortion directly attacks the unborn child. The qualifier is important, because the unborn child is not equivalent to a born child when it comes to being attacked. Insisting on vaccination doesn't harm anyone.

You are making "only because" do an awful lot of work here. (Kudos for spelling "because" correctly. Every day's a school day.)

It's not a problem at all, as long as abortion is accessible and legal. Abortion is a problem only to those who are not happy with the status quo. Currently, that would be you.
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Well vaccination has harmed a few people despite saving the lives of probably millions.
But not vaccinating doesnt harm anyone else any more than getting vaccinated since the viral load is the same
 
Temujin

Temujin

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
yes
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How do we decide this? Is every case of diabetes type 2 caused by gluttony, or just most of them? Is the passenger in a crashed car liable? Is lung cancer always caused by smoking? Sure, pregnancy is always caused by having sex, but there are pressures far short of rape that are put on women to have sex, and to not use contraception. Every case is different, and should be looked at individually.
 
Temujin

Temujin

Well-known member
BMS said:
No not really. One can still get covid after being vaccinated. Vaccination is the protection from severe illness and death for most individuals
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Having severe illness or death, is what most people would classify as being harmed. Sometimes people have to be persuaded, even coerced into doing something that is in their interest. For example, do you oppose laws on seatbelts in cars?
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Temujin said:
How do we decide this? Is every case of diabetes type 2 caused by gluttony, or just most of them? Is the passenger in a crashed car liable? Is lung cancer always caused by smoking? Sure, pregnancy is always caused by having sex, but there are pressures far short of rape that are put on women to have sex, and to not use contraception. Every case is different, and should be looked at individually.
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So you cite several conditions where the cause may not be self inflicted in comparison with pregnancy where it is. ( and of course rape isnt self inflicted) do you not know how to make an analogy?
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Temujin said:
Having severe illness or death, is what most people would classify as being harmed. Sometimes people have to be persuaded, even coerced into doing something that is in their interest. For example, do you oppose laws on seatbelts in cars?
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Being able to pass on viruses that cause illness and death is what most people would classify as harming others. That was the point I was correcting you on, though you still havent got it. Fully vacinated people can pass on the virus just as much as those who havent been vaccinated. The viral load is the same
 
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Temujin

Temujin

Well-known member
BMS said:
Being able to pass on viruses that cause illness and death is what most people would classify as harming others. That was the point I was correcting you on, though you still havent got it. Fully vacinated people can pass on the virus just as much as those who havent been vaccinated. The viral load is the same
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Viral load is only part of the picture. Someone in their own bed with sniffles will pass on a lot less virus than someone in a hospital bed surrounded by care staff. They are also preventing those care staff from caring for others. Don't you recall the exhortation to get vaccinated and protect the NHS? Failing to protect the NHS (insert appropriate health service here) is what causes harm to others. Don't you find it extraordinary that you have been inveigled into decrying vaccination, a point of view you don't agree with, simply because someone has erroneously compared it with abortion? Instead of slavishly following each and every argument against abortion, some of which are absurd, wouldn't it be more intellectually honest to say in this case that no, perhaps anti-vaccination is not a very good hill to die on, since the fact that vaccination is a good thing is well established? Perhaps intellectual honesty is not high on your priorities.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Temujin said:
Viral load is only part of the picture. Someone in their own bed with sniffles will pass on a lot less virus than someone in a hospital bed surrounded by care staff. They are also preventing those care staff from caring for others. Don't you recall the exhortation to get vaccinated and protect the NHS? Failing to protect the NHS (insert appropriate health service here) is what causes harm to others. Don't you find it extraordinary that you have been inveigled into decrying vaccination, a point of view you don't agree with, simply because someone has erroneously compared it with abortion? Instead of slavishly following each and every argument against abortion, some of which are absurd, wouldn't it be more intellectually honest to say in this case that no, perhaps anti-vaccination is not a very good hill to die on, since the fact that vaccination is a good thing is well established? Perhaps intellectual honesty is not high on your priorities.
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The viral load is the same for those with covid who have been vaccinated as those who have not been vaccinated.
The load however remains a bit higher for a bit longer with the unvaccinated.
So preventing the spread is not really stopped by vaccination so much as masks and santitzers because people will still get it regardless of whether they have been vaccinated or not.

I never said vaccination wasnt a good thing. Your response is not only factually incorrect and unable to make distinctions, but also makes false assumptions about others.
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
Temujin said:
How do we decide this? Is every case of diabetes type 2 caused by gluttony, or just most of them? Is the passenger in a crashed car liable? Is lung cancer always caused by smoking? Sure, pregnancy is always caused by having sex, but there are pressures far short of rape that are put on women to have sex, and to not use contraception. Every case is different, and should be looked at individually.
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That was meant to be a no. We should treat all conditions that are harmful to a patient regardless of cause.
 
Temujin

Temujin

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
That was meant to be a no. We should treat all conditions that are harmful to a patient regardless of cause.
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I agree. The issue with regard to abortion is the degree to which pregnancy is harmful versus the consequences of the treatment. There is sadly as massive gulf between those who consider that the death of the unborn child is such a dire consequence that it outweighs all else, and those who dismiss it as of no consequence whatsoever. This gulf is unlikely to be bridged by one side calling the other murderers, while they are in turn called heartless misogynists.
 
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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
That was meant to be a no. We should treat all conditions that are harmful to a patient regardless of cause.
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Ah - disregard the above.

Unwanted pregnancy is a condition that harms a patient.

Doesn't matter whether or not you think it's harmful - or whether or not I think it's harmful, indeed; it matters whether or not they think it's harmful.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
Ah - disregard the above.

Unwanted pregnancy is a condition that harms a patient.

Doesn't matter whether or not you think it's harmful - or whether or not I think it's harmful, indeed; it matters whether or not they think it's harmful.
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It matters whether it is harmful. Feelings dont change what exists.
 
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romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
And this does not matter because none of the child's rights are violated.
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Only becasue the law does not recognize the rights of the child.
Eightcrackers said:
Irrelevant - the important point is that she is pregnant, and doesn't want to be. The past is the past.
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Except you don't get to kill people becasue they are an inconvenience. Hence why we pro-lifers are seeking to get the laws changed.
 
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