Does the Pope have earthly authority to order death for anyone breaking church law ???

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
then you might want to go out and correct wiki on that...

His trial was overseen by the Inquisitor Cardinal Bellarmine, who demanded a full recantation, which Bruno eventually refused. On 20 January 1600, Pope Clement VIII declared Bruno a heretic, and the Inquisition issued a sentence of death. According to the correspondence of Gaspar Schopp of Breslau, he is said to have made a threatening gesture towards his judges and to have replied: Maiori forsan cum timore sententiam in me fertis quam ego accipiam ("Perhaps you pronounce this sentence against me with greater fear than I receive it").[33]

He was turned over to the secular authorities. wiki
Wikipedia is the oracle of all knowledge.

So where, in law, was the United States established as a Christian nation?

I'm still waiting for my history lesson. Maybe you can find it on Wikipedia.
 

mica

Well-known member
Since you know so much, why don't you explain it to me. Show me in the Constitution that the United States was set up as a Christian nation. Where is it in law? I don't want to read letters written by the Founders, or other irrelevancies, I want you to show me where the United States was established, by law, as a Christian nation.
I take it you aren't a US citizen? otoh, the majority of citizens know little about it either, or the constitution, Declaration of Independence or our founding fathers.

you wouldn't understand it any better than you do scripture. There are good book options on Wallbuilders website. It has lots of info available on our history.

you could also check youtube for lessons / teachings on our history by Rick Green and his kids.
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
I take it you aren't a US citizen? otoh, the majority of citizens know little about it either, or the constitution, Declaration of Independence or our founding fathers.

you wouldn't understand it any better than you do scripture. There are good book options on Wallbuilders website. It has lots of info available on our history.

you could also check youtube for lessons / teachings on our history by Rick Green and his kids.
So you can't answer the question. It should be easy.

Where in law was the United States established as a Christian nation? It should be easy for you to show me.

Have you ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli? It's a treaty of peace between the United States and Tripoli signed in 1796 and ratified unanimously by the US Senate in 1797.

Article 11 states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen ; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Oh, and also, the late, great Protestant evangelist, Billy Graham agrees with me.

In a televised interview by David Frost with Billy Graham on May 30, 1997, Frost asked Billy Graham this question: "So is this still a Christian Country?"

Billy Graham replied: "No! We're not a Christian Country. We've never been a Christian Country. We're a secular Country, by our constitution. In which Christians live and which many Christians have a voice. But we're not a Christian Country."

Here's a link to a video clip of the segment of the Billy Graham interview. I don't endorse anything on this website, I post this merely to prove what Billy Graham said. Billy Graham Not a Christian Country
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
I take it you aren't a US citizen? otoh, the majority of citizens know little about it either, or the constitution, Declaration of Independence or our founding fathers.

you wouldn't understand it any better than you do scripture. There are good book options on Wallbuilders website. It has lots of info available on our history.

you could also check youtube for lessons / teachings on our history by Rick Green and his kids.
So, I take it you are not a US citizen? You've never had a basic civics class?

I'm still waiting for you to show me where the United States was established as a Christian nation by law.

Actually, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment specifically forbids the United States from being a Christian nation or from recognizing any religion as the religion of the state.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

The United States was established as a secular nation, indifferent to religion, where people have the freedom to belong to ANY religion or NO religion, and worship, or not worship, as they please.

Maybe you could check YouTube and take some basic civics lessons there.
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
Can you give an example of a specific instance of a pope directly ordering someone to be put to death?
if a French King who has pledged his allegiance to the Pope
orders a group of people to be massacred for rejecting the Pope;
and then the Pope publicly approves of the massacre;
Does that count?
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
if a French King who has pledged his allegiance to the Pope
orders a group of people to be massacred for rejecting the Pope;
and then the Pope publicly approves of the massacre;
Does that count?
What specific instance are you talking about?

What did Henry VIII do in England? Henry VIII was the head of state and the head of his newly proclaimed church. What did John Calvin?
 

mica

Well-known member
So you can't answer the question. It should be easy.

Where in law was the United States established as a Christian nation? It should be easy for you to show me.

Have you ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli? It's a treaty of peace between the United States and Tripoli signed in 1796 and ratified unanimously by the US Senate in 1797.

Article 11 states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen ; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Oh, and also, the late, great Protestant evangelist, Billy Graham agrees with me.

In a televised interview by David Frost with Billy Graham on May 30, 1997, Frost asked Billy Graham this question: "So is this still a Christian Country?"

Billy Graham replied: "No! We're not a Christian Country. We've never been a Christian Country. We're a secular Country, by our constitution. In which Christians live and which many Christians have a voice. But we're not a Christian Country."

Here's a link to a video clip of the segment of the Billy Graham interview. I don't endorse anything on this website, I post this merely to prove what Billy Graham said. Billy Graham Not a Christian Country
This isn't a US government forum, so no I won't get into that here. I will provide a link to info on it on the Wallbuilders website. but again, I have no confidence that someone who doesn't understand scripture (or try to) will understand what's given thru the link either.

Wallbuilders on the Treaty of Tripoli
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
What specific instance are you talking about?

What did Henry VIII do in England? Henry VIII was the head of state and the head of his newly proclaimed church. What did John Calvin?

Mérindol massacre​


In the aftermath, both Francis I and Pope Paul III approved of the actions taken; the Pope rewarded Maynier with Imperial honours.
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
This isn't a US government forum, so no I won't get into that here. I will provide a link to info on it on the Wallbuilders website. but again, I have no confidence that someone who doesn't understand scripture (or try to) will understand what's given thru the link either.

Wallbuilders on the Treaty of Tripoli
This doesn't mean anything. Article 11 was included in the treaty which the United States Senate unanimously ratified and became law.

You know you're wrong so now you don't want to talk about it. It should be easy to prove. Show me in law, where the United States was declared to be a Christian nation.

You can't.

In fact the Constitution, the highest law of the land, declares that the United States cannot be a Christian nation as it can make no law respecting the establishment of religion.
 

mica

Well-known member
This doesn't mean anything. Article 11 was included in the treaty which the United States Senate unanimously ratified and became law.

You know you're wrong so now you don't want to talk about it. It should be easy to prove. Show me in law, where the United States was declared to be a Christian nation.

You can't.

In fact the Constitution, the highest law of the land, declares that the United States cannot be a Christian nation as it can make no law respecting the establishment of religion.
Christianity and religion are not the same. catholicism is a religion as is LDS etc.
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
Christianity and religion are not the same. catholicism is a religion as is LDS etc.
Deflection, that's all you do. You are wrong and can't show where the United States, by law, was declared to be a Christian nation, so all you do is deflect.

Q. "Show me where the United States was declared by law to be a Christian nation."
A. "Catholicism is like the LDS. You don't know your bible. Look at that big pile of green cheese."
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Does the Pope have earthly authority to order death for anyone breaking church law ???
Not these days. He also doesn't have a military any more. Back in the day times were different, and the Pope could (and did) murder anybody that got in his way, the MIRACLE is that Luther wasn't executed for his supposed heresies. it's only recently, because of the predatory Priest issues, that the Roman Catholic Management are starting to realize that they're NOT "Above the law".
 

mica

Well-known member
Deflection, that's all you do. You are wrong and can't show where the United States, by law, was declared to be a Christian nation, so all you do is deflect.

Q. "Show me where the United States was declared by law to be a Christian nation."
A. "Catholicism is like the LDS.
it is. so much that it could cause one to think that Joseph Smith modeled a lot of the LDS after catholicism. both are false man made religions.

You don't know your bible. Look at that big pile of green cheese."
you don't know scripture. I don't know about the cheese... check your fridge.
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
it is. so much that it could cause one to think that Joseph Smith modeled a lot of the LDS after catholicism. both are false man made religions.


you don't know scripture. I don't know about the cheese... check your fridge.
More deflection.

Show me in law where the United States was founded as a Christian nation.

But...but....Joseph Smith!!!

BTW, Smith came from a Protestant background.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
AV Hb 10:29-30 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Does the Pope have earthly authority to order death for anyone breaking church law ???

For those that may not trip on a future detail in prophecy:

Does the Pope have earthly authority to order death for a broken Sunday Law, when it happens ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Nope. The death penalty can only be issued by legitimate secular authorities. The only situation in which the pope could do such would be, for instance, as ruler of the papal states and he'd be doing in a secular, not religious, capacity.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Nope. The death penalty can only be issued by legitimate secular authorities. The only situation in which the pope could do such would be, for instance, as ruler of the papal states and he'd be doing in a secular, not religious, capacity.
It's like Jesus, who condemned Jesus to death ??? Who carried out the penalty ???

AV Jn 19:15 But they cried out, Away with [him], away with [him], crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Who ultimately wanted Jesus to die ??? The church leaders ...

In the end of time, someone condemns, and another will execute. And the issue will be for what, and who's authority.

Okay, when the Sunday Laws begin, until the Sunday Law Death Decree begins, are the last moments of repentance.

AV Re 17:3-6 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

We are heading there FAST !!!

When "a woman"/church "sit"/controls "a scarlet coloured beast"/one or more government(s), then we can expect "the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus".

Can you recognize GOD's defined "the saints" and "the martyrs" ???

Can you recognize "a woman" authority ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

mica

Well-known member
More deflection.

Show me in law where the United States was founded as a Christian nation.

But...but....Joseph Smith!!!

BTW, Smith came from a Protestant background.
so? that covers any 'religion' not catholic. being protestant doesn't = being a believer.

a lot of protestants aren't believers.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
so? that covers any 'religion' not catholic. being protestant doesn't = being a believer.
a lot of protestants aren't believers.
AV Re 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

From GOD's Spiritual Symbolic point of view ...

If the daughters are "HARLOTS", is also "THE MOTHER" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Show me in law where the United States was founded as a Christian nation.
The Declaration of Independence said:
When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—
I suppose you could make it a case, from a point of view.
American Founders, such as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, et al., were well enough acquainted with European history to know that they wished to found a government “without a king and a church without a pope.”
The premise was to Protest the Pope's oversight of government affairs.

How are we doing so far ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
AV Hb 10:29-30 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Does the Pope have earthly authority to order death for anyone breaking church law ???

For those that may not trip on a future detail in prophecy:

Does the Pope have earthly authority to order death for a broken Sunday Law, when it happens ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
The Roman Catholic Church states that Pope Leo I (440-461) was the first pope who claimed universal authority, and although not everyone accepted the idea at the time, it steadily grew until in 1075 Pope Gregory could declare that all Christians were obligated to obey him and that those who did not could be eternally damned. The RC pope even reserved to himself the right to punish and depose monarchs who disagreed with him.

The RCC says that undoubtedly, the most important man in medieval Europe was the pope. As a secular ruler he had direct authority over much of Italy; as Supreme Pontiff he used the threat of interdict and excommunication to bring recalcitrant monarchs into line. It is true that some of the medieval popes used this power to further their own personal goals and that there were abuses of the sacred office. Also, the medieval mentality and moral climates were somewhat different from ours today and that many people were not much disturbed by a pope who was a military leader or even by one who had a mistress and illegitimate children.
 
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