Dr. Picirilli on World, Whole World

TomFL

Well-known member
In discussing

1 John 2:2 —KJV
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Dr. Picirilli notes

John consistently uses “the world” against the Church. Only four times in 1 John does he use “the world” to not be negative: 1 John 3:17 and 4:17; 4:9; and 4:14 which is the same meaning as in 1 John 2:2. The Church is not to love “the world” (1 John 2:15-17), does not recognize Jesus nor His disciples (3:1), hates disciples (3:13), has the spirit of the antichrist (4:3-4), is overcome by disciples (5:4-5), and is in the grip of the evil one (5:18-19).
Dr. Picirilli notes at this point that one would be hard pressed to see, given the consistent use by John for “the world”, to mean “the elect of all nations.”

Even stronger is the use of the Greek word “holos” (or “whole”) in 1 John 2:2. The only other place this word is found is 1 John 5:19. How can 1 John 2:2 be “the elect from Jews and Gentiles” while “the whole world” in 1 John 5:19 cannot? I admit that context must determine the usage but Calvinists have greatly read into 1 John 2:2 their own doctrine when it comes to John’s use of “the world” as being only “the elect.”

Grace, Faith, Free Will. by Dr Robert Picirilli

as posted by S.E.A. member Roy Ingle

Also to be considered is John's use of the plural we/us

3. A few examples of typical usage will underscore the conclusions above: 1:7 we walk in the light and experience fellowship and cleansing; 1:9 if we confess our sins He forgives and cleanses us; 2:3 we know that we know Him if we keep His commandments; 3:1 God has bestowed such love on us that we are called His children; 3:2 when He appears we will be like Him; 3:14 we have passed from death to life, we love the brethren; 4:6 we are of God; 5:11 God gave us eternal life; 5:14 if we ask in His name, He hears us.

Picirilli, Robert. Grace Faith Free Will: Contrasting Views of Salvation: Calvinism & Arminianism (pp. 126-127). Ingram Distribution. Kindle Edition.

We consistently refers to all Christian rather than just a subset such a Jews

So John's audience is not limited to Jews alone and the :Our Sins" of 1John 2:2 should be understood as referring to the sins of all Christians

1 John 2:2 —KJV
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
 
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Matt Slick

CARM President
Staff member
Jesus was not sent to the whole world (Matthew 15:24). He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This means that the covenantal aspect of God's work with Israel was the intent that the Messiah come to redeem Israel. But because the nation of Israel broke the covenant with God, we the Gentiles are grafted in. The Jews always understood that the Messiah was coming for Israel and to deliver the people of God from the bondage of the oppressors as providing spiritual freedom. This is why John 3:16 says that God so loved the world. This is why 1 John 2:2 says that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. It's an expansive theological concept that includes the whole world. This, of course, was prophesied in Genesis 12:3 and quoted by Paul in Galatians 3:8, where he says that the statement "in you all the nation shall be blessed," is the gospel (Galatians 3:8).

Furthermore, "Propitiation” means the “Turning away of anger by the offering of a gift.” (Elwell, Walter A., and Barry J. Beitzel. Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988.) “The removal of wrath by the offering of a gift.” (Bromiley, Geoffrey W., ed. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988.) The wrath is not potentially removed. It is actually removed. So, did Jesus actually remove the wrath from every individual who ever lived? Of course not. So, it must be limited.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Jesus was not sent to the whole world (Matthew 15:24). He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This means that the covenantal aspect of God's work with Israel was the intent that the Messiah come to redeem Israel. But because the nation of Israel broke the covenant with God, we the Gentiles are grafted in. The Jews always understood that the Messiah was coming for Israel and to deliver the people of God from the bondage of the oppressors as providing spiritual freedom. This is why John 3:16 says that God so loved the world. This is why 1 John 2:2 says that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. It's an expansive theological concept that includes the whole world. This, of course, was prophesied in Genesis 12:3 and quoted by Paul in Galatians 3:8, where he says that the statement "in you all the nation shall be blessed," is the gospel (Galatians 3:8).

Furthermore, "Propitiation” means the “Turning away of anger by the offering of a gift.” (Elwell, Walter A., and Barry J. Beitzel. Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988.) “The removal of wrath by the offering of a gift.” (Bromiley, Geoffrey W., ed. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988.) The wrath is not potentially removed. It is actually removed. So, did Jesus actually remove the wrath from every individual who ever lived? Of course not. So, it must be limited.
So Jesus did not commission the gospel to be taken into the world ?

Mark 16:15 —ESV
“And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.”

Matthew 28:18-19 (KJV)
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

And what Christ did was offer a sacrifice that would turn away sin for all peoplep

BTW

World does not mean Israel

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καὶ ἀγγέλοις κ. ἀνθρώποις, 1 Co. 4:9 [W. 127 (121)]; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first So in Sap. [e.g. 10:1]): Mt. 13:38; 18:7; Mk. 14:9; Jn. 1:10, 29, [36 L in br.]; 3:16 sq.; 6:33, 51; 8:26; 12:47; 13:1; 14:31; 16:28; 17:6, 21, 23;

Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 357.

5. the world as mankind (Sib. Or. 1, 189)—a. gener. οὐαί τῷ κ. ἀπὸ τῶν σκανδάλων woe to mankind because of vexations Mt 18:7; τὸ φῶς τοῦ κ. the light for mankind 5:14; cf. J 8:12; 9:5. ὁ σωτὴρ τοῦ κ. 4:42; 1J 4:14 (this designation is found in the inscrs., esp. oft. of Hadrian [WWeber, Untersuchungen z. Geschichte des Kaisers Hadrianus ’07, 225; 226; 229]).—J 1:29; 3:17b;

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member
Jesus was not sent to the whole world (Matthew 15:24). He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This means that the covenantal aspect of God's work with Israel was the intent that the Messiah come to redeem Israel. But because the nation of Israel broke the covenant with God, we the Gentiles are grafted in. The Jews always understood that the Messiah was coming for Israel and to deliver the people of God from the bondage of the oppressors as providing spiritual freedom. This is why John 3:16 says that God so loved the world. This is why 1 John 2:2 says that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. It's an expansive theological concept that includes the whole world. This, of course, was prophesied in Genesis 12:3 and quoted by Paul in Galatians 3:8, where he says that the statement "in you all the nation shall be blessed," is the gospel (Galatians 3:8).

Furthermore, "Propitiation” means the “Turning away of anger by the offering of a gift.” (Elwell, Walter A., and Barry J. Beitzel. Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988.) “The removal of wrath by the offering of a gift.” (Bromiley, Geoffrey W., ed. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988.) The wrath is not potentially removed. It is actually removed. So, did Jesus actually remove the wrath from every individual who ever lived? Of course not. So, it must be limited.
Of course, it was no surprise at all to God, that HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, would reject His SON, and have Him murdered.

And the inclusion of the Gentile dogs into the Family of God was the plan from the beginning. Jesus' SIN OFFERING was of sufficient magnitude to include all humanity. God also knew, however, that MOST would reject Him.

The $64 question is whether there LITERALLY ARE People who were simply "born to burn" and are never given "conviction of SIN and of Judgement" (God's gift of FAITH) - i.e. ARE NEVER DRAWN to Christ, which would be necessary for them to come to Him.

THAT it's "Limited" is not really a question at all. Obviously, when one decides AGAINST being Born Again (As I did many times, until the last time), they've "limited" God's gift.

Paul seems not to be troubled by the issue, since he "becomes all thing to all men, that he might win SOME". He appears to consider all people as possible converts.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Jesus was not sent to the whole world (Matthew 15:24). He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This means that the covenantal aspect of God's work with Israel was the intent that the Messiah come to redeem Israel. But because the nation of Israel broke the covenant with God, we the Gentiles are grafted in.

So when

John states

John 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Can you claim this refers to all of Israel

I can show it includes those who will never believe and will be judged on the last day

John 12:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Dr. Picirilli notes

I'm not really sure why you think we would be impressed with the opinion of an Arminian.

If we quoted John Gill or John Calvin to show you were wrong, would you accept correction?
Of course not.
So why do you think it would work the other way around?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm not really sure why you think we would be impressed with the opinion of an Arminian.

If we quoted John Gill or John Calvin to show you were wrong, would you accept correction?
Of course not.
So why do you think it would work the other way around?
Are you posting to me ?

I thought you were not interested in having a conversation

In any case if what Gill or Calvin stated lines up with the word of God

their Calvinism would be meaningless to me
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Are you posting to me ?

I'm posting in response to something you posted, for the benefit of others reading the thread.

I thought you were not interested in having a conversation

That is correct, sir.

In any case if what Gill or Calvin stated lines up with the word of God

So you are free to reject Gill or Calvin if they disagree with your opinion.
So like I said, there's no reason for us to accept anything by "Picirilli".

their Calvinism would be meaningless to me

And likewise, Picirilli's Arminianism is meaningless to me.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm posting in response to something you posted, for the benefit of others reading the thread.



That is correct, sir.



So you are free to reject Gill or Calvin if they disagree with your opinion.
So like I said, there's no reason for us to accept anything by "Picirilli".

You are somewhat confused

My claim was if it lines up with scripture then the fact they are Calvinists would be meaningless because it would be truth


And likewise, Picirilli's Arminianism is meaningless to me.

Again you miss the point

Which is not to reject anyone claims simply based upon their known theology if what they are stating now lines up with the word of God

Nowhere was it ever stated someones claim should be reject solely based upon their known theology
 
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