Thats not what it says, sorry. Verse 11, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. verse 12, we recieve the Spirit of God so we may understand what God has freely given us, verse 14, the natural man, the man without the Spirit, does not understand the things that come from the Spirit of God.The hidden things in the mind of God he cannot knowv withouit the spirit
The revealed things he can understand
you ignored the scripture
John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
showing they believed before having the spirit
a fact frequently repeated
no
Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
and because you ignore the scripture you show your authority is not the word of God
It is your theology
You ignored scripture showing men had faith before hte Spiritumm.... Sorry. The natural man, man without the Spirit, does not understand the the things of God. So how did you come to undetrstand the things of God without the Spirit?
Sorry, without the Spirit they did not understand the things of God. Except for you because choice meatYou ignored scripture showing men had faith before hte Spirit
John 7:38-39 (NIV2011)
38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
Acts 2:38 (NIV2011)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:14 (NIV2011)
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
You twist scripture to support your theology
You should be sorry as you ignore manmy verse and you fail to consider the context of te vers you quoteSorry, without the Spirit they did not understand the things of God. Except for you because choice meat
Question, before I point out what you're missing. Did you read John Murray's comments I posted? If, not go back and read his comments carefully, to understand what you are missing.Pelagianism teaches no native depravity and no native demerit
Like it or not
You will note Humans at birth are neutral under Pelagianism
Native depravity is contrary to that
View attachment 2455
You should be sorry as you ignore manmy verse and you fail to consider the context of te vers you quote
First you chose a non literal translation of Psychikos
It's meaning is not without the Spirit
it refers to a carnal man - one sensuous who sees things only through the filter of worldly wisdom
ignoring in the very same general context some did believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
Examining the verse you will se men did not know God through wisdom (worldly)
yet those who believe God message concerning the cross he saves
The explanation i have provided is consistent with all of scripture
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Ephesians 3:17 (KJV 1900)
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
So you are in error
Sorry you are just mindlessly repeating yourselfSorry. The text in question is 1 Corinthians 2;11-14. The man without the Spirit cannot understand the things of God. You dont go to verse 21 and read it backwords genius. Notice they do not have the Spirit. Does the Spirit leave the carnal Chrisitain? lol
By the way show me "carnal man" in your irelevant proof text
Why should I be concerned with John Murray?Question, before I point out what you're missing. Did you read John Murray's comments I posted? If, not go back and read his comments carefully, to understand what you are missing.
Not worthy of a reply. Ignoring text in question.Sorry you are just mindlessly repeating yourself
which is typical
dealing neither dealing with exegesis of the selected text or scriptural rebuttal
You should be sorry as you ignore manmy verse and you fail to consider the context of te vers you quote
First you chose a non literal translation of Psychikos
It's meaning is not without the Spirit
it refers to a carnal man - one sensuous who sees things only through the filter of worldly wisdom
ignoring in the very same general context some did believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
Examining the verse you will se men did not know God through wisdom (worldly)
yet those who believe God message concerning the cross he saves
The explanation i have provided is consistent with all of scripture
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Ephesians 3:17 (KJV 1900)
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
So you are in error
BTW the same word appears here
James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jude 1:19 (KJV)
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Sorry you are still fabricatingNot worthy of a reply. Ignoring text in question.
By the way there your Greek word simply means natural, of soul or mind.
Nothing to do with carnal here. Sorry. Its translated natural in 1 Corinthians 2;14 You know, the text in questionSorry you are still fabricating
5591 ψυχικός [psuchikos /psoo·khee·kos/] adj. From 5590; TDNT 9:661; TDNTA 1342; GK 6035; Six occurrences; AV translates as “natural” four times, and “sensual” twice. 1 of or belonging to breath. 1A having the nature and characteristics of the breath. 1A1 the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes. 1B governed by breath. 1B1 the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion.
James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).
First you chose a non literal translation of Psychikos
It's meaning is not without the Spirit
it refers to a carnal man - one sensuous who sees things only through the filter of worldly wisdom
ignoring in the very same general context some did believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
Examining the verse you will see men did not know God through wisdom (worldly)
yet those who believe God message concerning the cross he saves
The explanation i have provided is consistent with all of scripture
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Ephesians 3:17 (KJV 1900)
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
So you are in error
BTW the same word appears here
James 3:15 (KJV)
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jude 1:19 (KJV)
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
You are in denialNothing to do with carnal here. Sorry. Its translated natural in 1 Corinthians 2;14 You know, the text in question
Sorry it does not change the fact that the natural man does not understand the things of God witihout the Spirit. Sorry. Deal with itYou are in denial
? - Dueteronomy 30:6
The hidden things in the mind of God he cannot knowv withouit the spirit The revealed things he can understand you ignored the scripture John 7:38-39 (KJV) 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of...forums.carm.org
? - Revelation
Thats not the text in question and I will not chase your stupid rabbit trails. Scripture does not contradict itself and one text does not trump another. That's dishonest Its not that one interpretation trumps another but that all must agree You have the responsibility to harmonize your...forums.carm.org
You offer only denialSorry it does not change the fact that the natural man does not understand the things of God witihout the Spirit. Sorry. Deal with it
Sorry. Scripture is quite clear. The natural man does not understand the things of God without the Spirit. Deal with itYou offer only denial
dealing neither with exegesis or scriptural rebuttal
? - Dueteronomy 30:6
The hidden things in the mind of God he cannot knowv withouit the spirit The revealed things he can understand you ignored the scripture John 7:38-39 (KJV) 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of...forums.carm.org
? - Revelation
Thats not the text in question and I will not chase your stupid rabbit trails. Scripture does not contradict itself and one text does not trump another. That's dishonest Its not that one interpretation trumps another but that all must agree You have the responsibility to harmonize your...forums.carm.org
that's just deceptive
Sorry but you ignore truthSorry. Scripture is quite clear. The natural man does not understand the things of God without the Spirit. Deal with it
You cannot understand Spiritual things without the Spirit. You should thank GodSorry but you ignore truth
and parrot your theology
? - Dueteronomy 30:6
The hidden things in the mind of God he cannot knowv withouit the spirit The revealed things he can understand you ignored the scripture John 7:38-39 (KJV) 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of...forums.carm.org
To understand these topics and debates is to understand both sides, correct? You're more worried about party then the truth. Search your feeling, Luke!Why should I be concerned with John Murray?
Both, again if you understand both sides, then you will understand. So, if party is more important to you, then okay. Then make up all the caricatures you want to try to justify your position.Was he defining Pelagianism or extolling his theology?
See, these comments show your heterodoxy in these debates. Because Murray exposes your Pelagian tendencies in your theology. So, you can quote anything you want, it still doesn't change the fact, if it looks like a duck, walks like duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck!I can give multiple sources all point to the same definition
Pelagianism — The heresy named after Pelagius, a British-born Roman theologian (ca. AD 354–415). Pelagianism rejected the idea that all people are inherently sinful and taught that it was possible for people to live holy lives in accordance with God's will and merit salvation by good works.
Douglas Mangum, The Lexham Glossary of Theology (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).
Pelagianism. Pelagianism strongly emphasizes personal responsibility in opposition to moral laxness. Pelagius (A.D. ca. 361–ca. 420) taught that God’s justice would not permit the transfer of Adam’s sin to others, so all people are born sinless and with a totally free will. Sin is spread only through bad example. Hence, sinless lives are possible and are found within and outside the Bible.
Bruce R. Marino, “The Origin, Nature, and Consequences of Sin,” in Systematic Theology: Revised Edition, ed. Stanley M. Horton (Springfield, MO: Logion Press, 2007), 265.
Pelagius maintained that the soul, created by God specially for every person is not tainted by any supposed corruption or guilt. Adam’s influence, if any, upon his descendants is merely that of a bad example; there is no other direct connection between Adam’s sin and the rest of the human race.
Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology., 2nd ed. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1998), 649.
According to Pelagius, a person is always “able to sin and able not to sin” (posse peccare et posse non peccare). Naturally, such a view of freedom carries implications for the doctrine of original sin. Pelagius denied that human beings derive a corrupt nature from Adam; if they did then they would not be responsible for their sins. Rather, Adam’s transgression served merely as a bad example to his descendants.
William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 959.
Amen!You cannot understand Spiritual things without the Spirit. You should thank God
So, what, if we echo the great theologians of the Reformation or Modern-day theologians! Don't you????Sorry but you ignore truth
and parrot your theology
? - Dueteronomy 30:6
The hidden things in the mind of God he cannot knowv withouit the spirit The revealed things he can understand you ignored the scripture John 7:38-39 (KJV) 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of...forums.carm.org