"easy grace" and "cheap grace"

[Theo1689]

As some of you know, the few Mormons who are on CARM (and a couple of them have started to participate in this particular forum) constantly dodge criticisms of their Mormon doctrines, and instead try to attack the doctrines of those who challenge them.

A Mormon poster recently threw out the phrase, "easy grace", as some sort of mud-slinging against Evangelical Christianity, and since such a topic isn't appropriate in the Mormonism forum, I thought I'd address it here.

First of all, I've never heard of the term, "easy grace", so I asked the poster to define it for us. Of course, he ignored the request, as the goal of Mormons is not productive discussion, but simply to throw around terms. I suspect that he INTENDED to accuse us of "cheap grace", which is a well-known phrase originated by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, but that he's not familiar enough with the term to remember it correctly.


"Cheap Grace"

"Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession ... Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate."
-- Dietrich Bonhoeffer


Many recognize that some groups under the umbrella of "Christian" proclaim that all you have to do is wake down an aisle, pray a prayer, and that will guarantee your supposed salvation, even if you spend the rest of your life living in sin. Most Christians I know condemn this teaching (and rightly so), since the Bible clearly teaches that someone who is saved will not continue to live a life of practicing sin, unrepentantly. This is called "cheap grace" because the continued life in sin cheapens and disrespects Christ's great sacrifice on the cross for those very same sins.

Those who DON'T hold to "cheap grace" will, as Bonhoeffer points out, be repentant, be a part of church authority and church discipline, will confess their sins, and value the cross (by not adding their further sins to the already heavy burden).

I can only speak for Calvinists (non-Calvinists can weigh in for ourselves), but the reason that for us it is not merely a decision of the intellect and nothing more, is because we believe that when God saves a person, He REGENERATES them, and gives them a new heart of flesh to replace their heart of stone, and gives them faith and repentance, and a new nature that longs to love God and obey Him. Not because it will "give us salvation", but only because we love God, and that it is the right thing to do. To accuse any Calvinist of believing in "cheap grace" is to demonstrate an ignorance of what Calvinism teaches.


"Easy Grace"

I've never heard this term before, and therefore do not know what the poster meant by it, and he refuses to define the term himself. I suspect he meant "cheap grace", but just in case he didn't, I can take a guess on what he thinks it means, based on the meanings of words.

"Easy Grace" sounds like a derogatory term that "grace" is not good, or it is not truly grace, unless it is NOT "easy" to obtain. And that is precisely in line with what Mormons believe, since they reject "faith alone", and reject the idea that grace is "UNMERITED" favour. Indeed, some of their leaders have spoken and written about "meriting the grace of God", and I know of no other phrase which is as cringe-worthy.

But for Mormons, apparently "grace" must be hard.
You have to WORK for it.
God forbid that God gives a gift to one of His creation without asking for something first.

 

[civic]

Great OP for discussion Theo1689 !

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). There is nothing “cheap” about grace! got?


Matthew 10:24-39

The Meaning of Discipleship, it has a COST !

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!

26 “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

That’s what the majority of churches teach that all one has to do is "accept Jesus" and you will experience the abundant life and everything will be great and God will bless you with the desires of your heart. And we wonder why the " church" in America has no influence in our culture. The fact is Jesus made it hard to follow Him and said it might very well cost you your life, family, friends etc..... He said to count the cost before attempting to follow Him and many turned away from Him. In fact, Jesus said if the hate Me they will hate you and you will suffer persecution on My behalf. God’s word promises believers that they will face various trials but God will be there will you so that you might stand up under those trials. This easy believism in our culture has no effect on it whatsoever but those who count the cost and Jesus is their Lord will endure under hardship and He will sustain you. Most want to go to a church that makes them feel good( the Seeker Friendly movement) build up their self-esteem with the prosperity gospel, heath and wealth, name it and claim it false teaching that are prevalent on TV and many churches not only in the US but abroad. It’s a sad case how those teachers are leading people away from the Living God with their heresies.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Thank you Theo.

Once again you offer clarity in the midst of Mormon confusion.

 

[ReverendRV]

Easy Believism ~ by ReverendRV

Romans 10:9 KJV; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

The Protestant Reformation was built largely upon the premise we are Saved through ‘Faith Alone’. ~ Recently a Celebrity has pronounced his Christianity, claiming “Jesus is King”. Christians are concerned that the Star will let us down as other Stars have in the past, saying “Let’s wait and see”; but should we wait?? Some Churches take issue with Easy Believism, but it takes very little for us to be considered a Christian. Thank God that this is true because our Justification in the sight of God could never be real any other way! May God bless Kanye West and use him for the increase of his Kingdom, and his Honor and Glory. The World will want to break Kanye; but when God is involved, a bruised reed he will not break…

I wanted to show that ‘Easy Believism’ and ‘Easy Condemnation’ have a certain Equilibrium; sort of an Equal Ultimacy. ~ Have you ever told a Lie? You say, “That’s easy, yes I have”. What do you call people who Lie? You say, “That’s easy too, they are Liars”. What does all this make you out to be? You say, “It doesn’t make ME a Liar”. But wouldn’t their being Liars, also make you a Liar because of a kind of Equal Ultimacy; a ‘unifying’ Category so to speak? As it takes little to be Saved from the Penalty of your Sins, there’s an Equilibrium between easy Innocence and easy Guiltiness; all it takes is a Lie to be Guilty. But it’s worse than that; “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the Adulterous, those who practice magic arts, the Idolaters and all Liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone”. If God Judged you by this standard would you be Guilty? Would you go to this fiery Hell??

But God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever ‘believes’ in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life; how easy is that?! For all have Sinned and Fallen short of the Glory of God, but the gift of God is Eternal Life in Jesus Christ. He lived a Sinless Life and earned a Righteousness which allowed him a Triumphal Entry into Heaven, but he gladly traded his triumph for our shame. Jesus Christ paid the penalty for Lying to God by shedding his blood on the Cross, Atoning for Sin. Jesus arose from the grave conquering Death and Hell, then ascended to Heaven where he prepares a place for us to be with him. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the risen Jesus Christ, without trying to Merit Salvation in any other conceivable way. Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God, Repent of your Sins; and join a Bible believing Church as soon as you can. ~ Since Jesus bore your Sin, you bear his Righteousness; and are Forgiven. “Equal Ultimacy” is used to debate higher Doctrines; but when someone is categorized as a Sinner, ultimately you are too. When Jesus is Righteous and you are in him; ultimately you are too…

John 18:37 KJV; Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[zerinus]

"Faith alone" is a heresy. There is no salvation without repentance and keeping the commandments of God. Keeping the commandments of God is not the same as "works". It means not sinning. I started a thread sometime back listing many scriptures that require obedience to the commandments of God to be saved. The list was so long that I had to split it up into four different posts. It can be seen here. There is no salvation without repentance and keeping God's commandments.

 

[Theo1689]

"Faith alone" is a heresy.

<Chuckle>

As long as you continue to IGNORE and RUN AWAY from the following passages:

Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;

.... your opinion is worthless.

There is no salvation without repentance and keeping the commandments of God.

While it was true that Jesus kept directing the Jews to the Mosaic Law, the reason is not what you think. The reason is because Jesus was a Socratic teacher, and His purpose was to lead the Jews to this Biblical conclusion:

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Other passages which teach that we CANNOT be saved by "keeping the commandments" are as follows:

Gal. 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal. 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Gal. 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

Gal. 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

Keeping the commandments of God is not the same as "works". It means not sinning.

This is nothing but worthless "double-talk".

You are trying to argue that the commandments are nothing but prohibitions,
"Don't do this" (which is sin);
"Don't do that" (which is sin);

But that is not all of the commandments.
Many of the commandments are POSITIVE "works" to do, such as:
- Love God;
- Love neighbour;
- Love enemy;
- Give tithes;
- meet together;
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

So your claim is clearly false.

 

[civic]

"Faith alone" is a heresy.

Is Grace alone heresy ?
Is Christ alone heresy ?

 

[zerinus]

Is Grace alone heresy ?

Yes, “grace alone” without faith, repentance, and keeping God's commandments is also a heresy.

Is Christ alone heresy ?

“Christ alone” is a slogan. It means nothing unless it is qualified by a doctrinal or theological statement.

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[civic]

Yes, “grace alone” without faith, repentance, and keeping God's commandments is also a heresy.

“Christ alone” is a slogan. It means nothing unless it is qualified by a doctrinal or theological statement.

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Is Jesus alone the Savior of man ?
is there any other name by which men are saved but His ?
did anyone else die for mankind's sin ?
has anyone else paid for sin and was Resurrected from the dead ?
is the Gospel about anyone else but Jesus ?

any more things you want me to add ?

I could list another 20 about Jesus but these should be enough to suffice and make the point.................

 

[zerinus]

Is Jesus alone the Savior of man ?
is there any other name by which men are saved but His ?
did anyone else die for mankind's sin ?
has anyone else paid for sin and was Resurrected from the dead ?
is the Gospel about anyone else but Jesus ?

any more things you want me to add ?

I could list another 20 about Jesus but these should be enough to suffice and make the point.................

You missed this one:

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[civic]

You missed this one:

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

didn't miss it at all you just do not understand who Jesus is thats all.

no root-no fruit- ye shall know them by their fruits, a good tree bears good fruit.

simple as that

next.....................

 

[zerinus]

didn't miss it at all you just do not understand who Jesus is thats all.

no root-no fruit- ye shall know them by their fruits, a good tree bears good fruit.

simple as that

next.....................

So why does he keep telling people throughout the Bible to do good, to repent, and to keep God's commandments; if all they need to do is to believe, and the rest happens by itself once they have “believed”?

 

[civic]

So why does he keep telling people throughout the Bible to do good, to repent, and to keep God's commandments; if all they need to do is to believe, and the rest happens by itself once they have “believed”?

Like James, Paul and Jesus taught genuine faith produces good works. Works are a by product of salvation and not the means to salvation- faith is that means and the result is good works as per Ephesians 2:8-10.

hope this helps !!!

 

[zerinus]

Like James, Paul and Jesus taught genuine faith produces good works. Works are a by product of salvation and not the means to salvation- faith is that means and the result is good works as per Ephesians 2:8-10.

hope this helps !!!

That is a dodge. You are not answering my question. I will repeat the question for you one more time: why does Jesus keep telling people in the Bible to do good, to repent, and to keep God's commandments; if all they need to do is to “believe,” and the rest happens by itself once they have “believed”? Care to give a straight answer to that question for a change, instead of dodging it again this time round?

 

[Theo1689]

So why does he keep telling people throughout the Bible to do good,

Because they are morally obligated to.

to repent,

Because they are morally obligated to.

and to keep God's commandments;

1) Because they are morally obligated to.

2) Because it convicts them of their sin, and their need for God (Rom. 3:19-20).

if all they need to do is to believe,

Who says, "all they need to do is to believe"?
Where do you get this stuff from?

and the rest happens by itself once they have “believed”?

Who says, "and the rest happens by itself"?

Can you provide a linked quote from whomever you think teaches this?

 

[Theo1689]

Yes, “grace alone” without faith, repentance, and keeping God's commandments is also a heresy.

Hence, "faith alone".
We don't forget "faith".

“Christ alone” is a slogan. It means nothing unless it is qualified by a doctrinal or theological statement.

I find it incredibly amusing that Mormons throw a hissy-fit thinking that Christians criticize Mormonism without understanding it (or so Mormons claim), yet you demonstrate that you are completely ignorant of the "five sola's". The fact that there are FIVE "solas" should be the very first clue (for anyone with an I.Q. over 12, anyway) that they are not referring to the same thing, and that they are answering DIFFERENT questions:

What must I do to be saved? Sola Fide


What must I trust? Solus Christus


What must I obey? Sola Scriptura


What must I earn? Sola Gratia


What is the point? Soli Deo Gloria

(From https://thecripplegate.com/5-questions-and-the-5-solas/)

 

[civic]

Hence, "faith alone".
We don't forget "faith".



I find it incredibly amusing that Mormons throw a hissy-fit thinking that Christians criticize Mormonism without understanding it (or so Mormons claim), yet you demonstrate that you are completely ignorant of the "five sola's". The fact that there are FIVE "solas" should be the very first clue (for anyone with an I.Q. over 12, anyway) that they are not referring to the same thing, and that they are answering DIFFERENT questions:

What must I do to be saved? Sola Fide


What must I trust? Solus Christus


What must I obey? Sola Scriptura


What must I earn? Sola Gratia


What is the point? Soli Deo Gloria

(From https://thecripplegate.com/5-questions-and-the-5-solas/)

Amen

 

[zerinus]

Amen

Why don't you address the points I have raised, and answer the question I have asked properly yourself (if you can), instead of pandering to his illogical meaningless nonsense which as a matter of principle I have decided never to reply to?

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Why don't you address the points I have raised, and answer the question I have asked properly yourself (if you can), instead of pandering to his illogical meaningless nonsense which as a matter of principle I have decided never to reply to?

Because, we don't think you are listening. It's quite simple: We believe that Mormonism is a CULT, hence that makes you part of a cult. We are Christians and you are not. What you believe puts you at odds with Christian teaching. And if my look over at the Mormon forum is accurate, you have been asked scores of questions regarding Mormonism that you refuse to answer.

Aside from that, if you weren't a Mormon, you are not asking valid questions. I haven't noticed you trying to rightly divide the Word of God. You don't seem to know anything about HOW to interpret scripture properly.

 

[armylngst]

So why does he keep telling people throughout the Bible to do good, to repent, and to keep God's commandments; if all they need to do is to believe, and the rest happens by itself once they have “believed”?

Why did He tell the Jews point blank that He is God? I mean, they did not misunderstand, and they did not believe He stuttered when He said "before Abraham was, I Am." They wanted to stone Him because of blasphemy, for using God's name "I Am" for Himself.