ECF are they reliable

balshan

Well-known member
So often we hear most RCs bring up the ECFs as if they are reliable source of knowledge. Yet we have seen those quotes taken out of context or not meaning very much at all. In fact, some go against RC beliefs. I posted quotes from the ECFs on another thread and it is still in my thoughts. It showed how wrong they were.

It comes from their poor attitude to women. In fact, let us be honest they were misogynists. A lot of this attitude would come from a culture were women were not valued but also from what occurred in the garden. They blame Eve for the fall, yet scripture is very clear that is not the case. It is by one man. The Greek word here is man not mankind. So it appears there is a major misunderstand by the ECFs of scripture.

Starting Point: Women are the “Devil’s Gateway”

To understand why asceticism was the primary way for women to gain value in the eyes of the Early Church Fathers, we must first examine why woman inherited such a low value to begin with. Such a value originated out of the ECF’s interpretation of The Fall (to use their language) and specifically Eve’s roll within that narrative. Referencing 1 Tim. 2:14, Ambrose argues, “The woman, therefore, is the originator of the man’s wrongdoing, not the man of the woman’s.” on of his commentary on Genesis, he says, “She even dragged her husband along with her into sin and showed herself to be an incentive to him.” Before Ambrose, Tertullian made the argument that blame for Eve’s first sin extended to all woman and that God’s judgment and guilt will live in each one forward. In his treatise, On the Dress of Women, Tertullian says, “You are the Devil’s gateway; you are the unsealer of that tree; you are the first foresaker of the divine law; you are the one who persuaded him whom the Devil was not brave enough to approach; you so lightly crushed the image of God, the man Adam.” In Tertullian’s last line, he makes mention of Adam being the carrier of the image of God. While not thought by all Early Church Fathers, some believed that women did not contain the image of God because of their order in Creation as being subject to men.


This attitude towards women shows a complete lack of understanding of scripture:

Rom 5:12 clearly show it was by one man sin entered the world -

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Gal 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gen 1:27

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

From these simple passages we know that the ECFs were wrong, very wrong on many issues, so why do RCs bring them up so often. They are not a reliable source, they are not infallible and they show how they were taking the early churches down the wrong path.
 
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mica

Well-known member
mica said:
so you're still claiming the RCC is infallible, with no biblical support of that.

Several verses support the Catholic Church.... your 'fallible interpretation' of those verses cloud the view.
Then post 1 that supports it. It's mentioned nowhere in scripture, nor does it say the church (His people) are infallible - not even Peter. your 'bible' has more books in it, so maybe it mentions the RCC in one of those the RCC has added to God's word.
 
Then post 1 that supports it. It's mentioned nowhere in scripture, nor does it say the church (His people) are infallible - not even Peter. your 'bible' has more books in it, so maybe it mentions the RCC in one of those the RCC has added to God's word.
so we should start with math.... subtraction is the word you are looking for. 73-7=66
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
Then post 1 that supports it. It's mentioned nowhere in scripture, nor does it say the church (His people) are infallible - not even Peter. your 'bible' has more books in it, so maybe it mentions the RCC in one of those the RCC has added to God's word.

so we should start with math.... subtraction is the word you are looking for. 73-7=66
the RCC subtracts the majority of scripture and replaces it with what it makes up.

We know that already. have you got anything else?

obviously from your post, you have no verse that supports the RCC / mentions it by name. we know that also.
 
the RCC subtracts the majority of scripture and replaces it with what it makes up.

We know that already. have you got anything else?

obviously from your post, you have no verse that supports the RCC / mentions it by name. we know that also.
Are we being selective? List all the verses Christ says 'Christian', 'The Way', 'Nazarene's', 'Bible', 'Altar Call'.....
 

mica

Well-known member
Are we being selective? List all the verses Christ says 'Christian', 'The Way', 'Nazarene's', 'Bible', 'Altar Call'.....
post all the verses where He says to believe in Him and / or follow Him. Believers are those who believe in and follow Him, not those who believe in and follow man.
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
post all the verses where He says to believe in Him and / or follow Him. Believers are those who believe in and follow Him, not those who believe in and follow man

Quite Catholic!!! AMEN
no, catholics don't believe in Him and His word. catholics believe in the RCC and its word. catholics here tell us that by their beliefs and their posts.

If you believed in and followed Him, then He'd be priority in your life, not the RCC.
 
no, catholics don't believe in Him and His word. catholics believe in the RCC and its word. catholics here tell us that by their beliefs and their posts.

If you believed in and followed Him,
You would be obedient and accept the Eucharist as Christ's body, blood, soul, and divinity. Otherwise, you do not have life within you [Jn 6]
 
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