Ecumenical Guidelines of the Roman Catholic Church

[Mysterium Fidei]

From the above mentioned book, "The Question Box Answers"

Q.) Should not a person live and die in the Church of their baptism, especially if they have sworn to do so?

A.) I have met a number of Lutherans in the Northwest who told me that they had taken an oath to die Lutherans. Such an oath to worship Christ in a false Christianity, which He as the God of truth necessarily condemns, is not binding, once a person discovers that the Catholic Church is the only Church possessing the entire gospel of the Saviour. He must abandon his heresy and schism once he discovers them, else salvation is impossible.

 

[jonathan_hili]

Before Vatican II, a Catholic convert coming from a schismatic or heretic sect was required to make an act of abjuration of the errors and heresies which they formerly held prior to their baptism, or, in the case of Eastern schismatics, before they make their profession of Faith and can receive Catholic sacraments.

This is contained explicitly in the Profession of Faith of the Council of Trent: "Also all other things taught, defined, and declared by the sacred canons and ecumenical Councils, and especially by the sacred and holy Synod of Trent, (and by the ecumenical Council of the Vatican,1 particularly concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff and his infallible teaching), I without hesitation accept and profess; and at the same time all things contrary thereto, and whatever heresies have been condemned, and rejected, and anathematized by the Church, I likewise condemn, reject, and anathematize."

The Vatican II Novus Ordo sect, which believes all religions have value in the order of salvation, has, of course, rejected this requirement of abjuration of error and heresies.

Oh, I'm one of that sect!

(And I don't believe all religions have value in the order of salvation. Only Christ saves.)

 

[RayneBeau]

These doctrines were totally contradicted by the heresies of Vatican II. Catholics today need to read https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm Mortalium Animos by Pope Pius XI for the true teaching of the Catholic Church on inter-religious dialogue and false ecumenism.

Are you referencing when in the 20th century there was a heresy that cropped up in Belgium at the Chevetogne Abbey, which was a Benedictine monastery that had been founded by Fr. Lambert Beauduin in order to promote Christian unity? And, that in 1925, Beauduin along with his monks held a series of talks with Anglican and EO bishops and came to the conclusion that the major stumbling block to the reunion of Christendom was the very dogma of papal primacy that granted the pope of the Roman Catholic Church complete jurisdictional authority of the entire church. That being the case, Pope Pius XI intervened then and ordered an end to the talks, and issued Mortalium animos in1928, which was an encyclical to draw up the distinction between true and false ecumenism. Is this what you are referring to? And, could you define what "pan-Christians" are?

 

[RayneBeau]

Thanks, I found it on p. 99:

" With a sincere heart, therefore, and with unfeigned faith, I detest and abjure every error, heresy, and sect, opposed to the said Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Roman Church. So help me God, and these His holy Gospels, which I touch with my hand."

My question still stands:

RayneBeau said:
Even in the late 50's before becoming a full-fledged Roman Catholic, the convert wannabes MUST swear to the following oath: "With a sincere heart and with unfeigned faith, I detest and adjure every error, every heresy, and every sect, opposed to the said Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church. So help me God."

Is that oath still in place, and used today before new, indoctrinated, soon-to-be Roman Catholic converts can officially become an RCC member, having yet to receive that spuriously proclaimed 'indelible mark' of a Roman Catholic on their eternal souls? And if not, why not?

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Vatican II decreed and implemented teachings previously condemned by the Infallible Teaching Magisterium of the Church. The Second Vatican Council’s heretical teachings were primarily, but not exclusively, in the areas of religious liberty and false ecumenism.

Protestantism is a collection of contradicting sects founded by men, centuries after the Catholic Church. There is no unity of doctrine, worship or disciplines in Protestantism.

Luther did not think through his novel new doctrine of the right of individual interpretation of scriptures. If HE had the right to interpret sacred scripture for himself, that meant that everyone else had that same right. The splintering of Protestantism because of this heresy began even during his lifetime and continues, unabated, today.

Luther knew enough to ignore these nonsensical ideas of salvation using the chair method.

Anathema.

 

[RayneBeau]

so much for the infallibility of the RCC 'teaching magisterium'.


catholicism is part of that. the RCC / CC was founded by men and what it teaches contradicts scripture.

and the RCC was irate that he read and studied scripture for himself and exposed that the RCC wasn't teaching the truth found in scripture.

so much for the Bereans reading and studying scripture and comparing it to what Paul taught!

Mica, do you also recall being taught in the RCC that any Roman Catholic who took part in a non-Roman Catholic worship service (even if they simply just joined in with the congregation in singing a hymn of praise to God) thus had by that very act, committed a mortal sin!

 

[Beloved Daughter]

From the above mentioned book, "The Question Box Answers"

Q.) Should not a person live and die in the Church of their baptism, especially if they have sworn to do so?

A.) I have met a number of Lutherans in the Northwest who told me that they had taken an oath to die Lutherans. Such an oath to worship Christ in a false Christianity, which He as the God of truth necessarily condemns, is not binding, once a person discovers that the Catholic Church is the only Church possessing the entire gospel of the Saviour. He must abandon his heresy and schism once he discovers them, else salvation is impossible.

Nothing on earth and no one on earth can change what the Bible says about the sufficiency of being saved by grace.

 

[RayneBeau]

From the above mentioned book, "The Question Box Answers"

Q.) Should not a person live and die in the Church of their baptism, especially if they have sworn to do so?

A.) I have met a number of Lutherans in the Northwest who told me that they had taken an oath to die Lutherans. Such an oath to worship Christ in a false Christianity, which He as the God of truth necessarily condemns, is not binding, once a person discovers that the Catholic Church is the only Church possessing the entire gospel of the Saviour. He must abandon his heresy and schism once he discovers them, else salvation is impossible.

Absolute lunacy - and here's more Roman Catholic insanity taught by Fr. Bertrand Conway, who pointed out in his best-selling Roman Catholic publication that: "Catholicism is essentially a religion based on a divine, infallible teaching; a Catholic is logically a possessor of truth. Why therefore should he seek for that which he already possesses? His faith precludes all possibility of doubt; it rests on the authority of God. He can never admit that other churches, liberal or orthodox may possibly be right."

 

[jonathan_hili]

My question still stands:

RayneBeau said:
Even in the late 50's before becoming a full-fledged Roman Catholic, the convert wannabes MUST swear to the following oath: "With a sincere heart and with unfeigned faith, I detest and adjure every error, every heresy, and every sect, opposed to the said Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church. So help me God."

Is that oath still in place, and used today before new, indoctrinated, soon-to-be Roman Catholic converts can officially become an RCC member, having yet to receive that spuriously proclaimed 'indelible mark' of a Roman Catholic on their eternal souls? And if not, why not?

I don't think so. Why not? I'll hazard a guess: that kind of language is a bit antiquated and it isn't a very positive statement (i.e., it doesn't say much about what the convert will believe) though the sentiment is still involved in a profession of faith catechumens make (found it on the Vatican website): "With firm faith, I also believe everything contained in the word of God, whether written or handed down in Tradition, which the Church, either by a solemn judgment or by the ordinary and universal Magisterium, sets forth to be believed as divinely revealed. I also firmly accept and hold each and everything definitively proposed by the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals. Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act." - Which is a mouthful! Having said that, local ordinaries (bishops) might have additional RCIA requirements in their dioceses.

There isn't an "indelible mark" of a Catholic on your eternal soul. That's Christian baptism and other sacraments (i.e. confirmation and holy orders) that do that.

 

[RayneBeau]

These doctrines were totally contradicted by the heresies of Vatican II. Catholics today need to read https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm Mortalium Animos by Pope Pius XI for the true teaching of the Catholic Church on inter-religious dialogue and false ecumenism.

Actually, it was on 12-20-1949, that the Holy Office issued its teachings on ecumenism in the Instructio de Motione Oecumenica, which was based on Pius XI's encyclical Mortalium animos, in 1928. That publication laid down canonically sanctioned principles for union with any Protestant denomination.

 

[balshan]

Mica, do you also recall being taught in the RCC that any Roman Catholic who took part in a non-Roman Catholic worship service (even if they simply just joined in with the congregation in singing a hymn of praise to God) thus had by that very act, committed a mortal sin!

We were taught that it was a mortal sin. When I first went to an Anglican service I half expected the roof to cave in.

 

[mica]

Mica, do you also recall being taught in the RCC that any Roman Catholic who took part in a non-Roman Catholic worship service (even if they simply just joined in with the congregation in singing a hymn of praise to God) thus had by that very act, committed a mortal sin!

yes. one of my friends came to Mass with me and then she wanted me to go with her to a service at her church. I was told by a nun at school that it would be a mortal sin to go.

Also, in HS a nun overheard me talking to some of my girlfriends about my sister's coming summer wedding (not in the RCC) and that nun yanked me by my hair and told me that if I went to her wedding I'd go to hell. I went to my sister's wedding.

that reminds me - my 2 youngest were baptized in the RCC. As I go thru paperwork (clearing out things while I still can so it isn't left for my kids to do) if I find those baptismal certificates they'll go thru the shredder. I don't want them to ever see them or know they exist.

 

[RayneBeau]

We were taught that it was a mortal sin. When I first went to an Anglican service I half expected the roof to cave in.

Oh my goodness! We were so brainwashed! I know just what you and Mica are both saying and how you felt! We were literally indoctrinated with the lies that the RCC drilled into our little impressionable minds as children, telling us lies that made us believe that Roman Catholics alone possessed the absolute truth, hence we were forbidden to attend even lectures in Protestant churches or to participate in Protestant worship services.
Read these brazen words written and pronounced by Pope Pius IX:
"They [the faithful] should totally shun their [Protestant] religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writing and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meeting with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimated mission or any jurisdiction. They should avoid them as strangers and thieves who come only to steal, slay and destroy."

Why wasn't the RCC teaching us the truth which is to love all people and hate all sin, and that if we truly love God we will hate all sin (look at what a perfect example the RCC always put forth displaying hatred for anyone or any church that was not Roman Catholic). And all the while they were pronouncing their 'goodness' they were drifting deeper and deeper into their filthy lusts and their increased love for sinful sexual perversions that they perpetrated on little innocent children all over the world -most of these children were baptized Roman Catholic at birth - many of these RCC priests I am sure baptized these children as infants, then years later baptized them again into their own dark world of sexual deviance.



"You have heard the Law of Moses which says: "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say love your enemies."
Matt. 5: 43-44

 

[balshan]

Oh my goodness! We were so brainwashed! I know just what you and Mica are both saying and how you felt! We were literally indoctrinated with the lies that the RCC drilled into our little impressionable minds as children, telling us lies that made us believe that Roman Catholics alone possessed the absolute truth, hence we were forbidden to attend even lectures in Protestant churches or to participate in Protestant worship services.
Read these brazen words written and pronounced by Pope Pius IX:
"They [the faithful] should totally shun their [Protestant] religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writing and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meeting with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimated mission or any jurisdiction. They should avoid them as strangers and thieves who come only to steal, slay and destroy."

Why wasn't the RCC teaching us the truth which is to love all people and hate all sin, and that if we truly love God we will hate all sin (look at what a perfect example the RCC always put forth displaying hatred for anyone or any church that was not Roman Catholic). And all the while they were pronouncing their 'goodness' they were drifting deeper and deeper into their filthy lusts and their increased love for sinful sexual perversions that they perpetrated on little innocent children all over the world -most of these children were baptized Roman Catholic at birth - many of these RCC priests I am sure baptized these children as infants, then years later baptized them again into their own dark world of sexual deviance.



"You have heard the Law of Moses which says: "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say love your enemies."
Matt. 5: 43-44

Well that is easy most of aren't saved and don't know the truth. Also, it was a control mechanism. If we went to other services we might realise we were taught lies.

 

[balshan]

Well that is easy most of aren't saved and don't know the truth. Also, it was a control mechanism. If we went to other services we might realise we were taught lies.

Sorry I left out the word them in the first sentence.

 

[RayneBeau]

Well that is easy most of aren't saved and don't know the truth. Also, it was a control mechanism. If we went to other services we might realise we were taught lies.

Yep...... Bingo! Bingo! Bingo!

nt

 

[Mysterium Fidei]

Actually, it was on 12-20-1949, that the Holy Office issued its teachings on ecumenism in the Instructio de Motione Oecumenica, which was based on Pius XI's encyclical Mortalium animos, in 1928. That publication laid down canonically sanctioned principles for union with any Protestant denomination.

There are no "canonically sanctioned principles" for "union" with any Protestant sect.

Protestantism has always been trying to put itself back together again with various ecumenical movements throughout its history. The period after WWI was no different.

Mortalium animos was a clear condemnation of these inter-religious ecumenical meetings and clearly states that the only true ecumenism is for those who have left the Catholic Church to return to Her fold.

"Certainly such attempts [at interreligious unity] can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion." - Moritalium Animos

 

[RayneBeau]

There are no "canonically sanctioned principles" for "union" with any Protestant sect.

Protestantism has always been trying to put itself back together again with various ecumenical movements throughout its history. The period after WWI was no different.

Mortalium animos was a clear condemnation of these inter-religious ecumenical meetings and clearly states that the only true ecumenism is for those who have left the Catholic Church to return to Her fold.

"Certainly such attempts [at interreligious unity] can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion." - Moritalium Animos

Although you choose to believe that within the RCC there are no "canonically sanctioned principles" for "union" with any Protestant sect, the following is a list of the canonically sanctioned principles for union with any Protestant denomination, based on the teachings on ecumenism in the Instructio de Motione Oecumenica, which was based on Pius Xi" encyclical Mortalium animos (1928).

1. Nothing can be added or subtracted from the fullness of Catholic doctrine. Protestantism has nothing to add to the revealed truth of the Roman Catholic religion.
2. Christian unity must not be pursued for the sake of assimilation (i.e., the incorporation of Protestant beliefs and practices into the life of the Church, and Catholic doctrine must never be adjusted to comply with Protestant sensibilities).
3. True unity between Christians can only come about by the return of Protestants to the Roman Catholic fold.

 

[RayneBeau]

There are no "canonically sanctioned principles" for "union" with any Protestant sect.

Protestantism has always been trying to put itself back together again with various ecumenical movements throughout its history. The period after WWI was no different.

Mortalium animos was a clear condemnation of these inter-religious ecumenical meetings and clearly states that the only true ecumenism is for those who have left the Catholic Church to return to Her fold.

"Certainly such attempts [at interreligious unity] can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion." - Moritalium Animos

Why did you leave this part of Moritalium Animos, which is full of Roman Catholicisms' pompous condemnations, out of your response?
In Moritalium Animos, Pope Pius XI also states:
"These pan-Christians who turn their minds to uniting the churches seem, indeed, to pursue the noblest of ideas in promoting charity among all Christians; nevertheless how does it happen that this charity tends to injure faith? Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment "Love one another," altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt version of Christ's teaching: "if any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you." For which reason, since charity is based on a complete and sincere faith, the disciples of Christ must be united principally by the bond of one faith. Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each is own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, we ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful?
Again I'll ask: What is a "pan-Christian" or "pan-Christianity" that Pius XI refers to?

 

[Mysterium Fidei]

Why did you leave this part of Moritalium Animos, which is full of Roman Catholicisms' pompous condemnations, out of your response?
In Moritalium Animos, Pope Pius XI also states:
"These pan-Christians who turn their minds to uniting the churches seem, indeed, to pursue the noblest of ideas in promoting charity among all Christians; nevertheless how does it happen that this charity tends to injure faith? Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment "Love one another," altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt version of Christ's teaching: "if any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you." For which reason, since charity is based on a complete and sincere faith, the disciples of Christ must be united principally by the bond of one faith. Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each is own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, we ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful?
Again I'll ask: What is a "pan-Christian" or "pan-Christianity" that Pius XI refers to?

You obviously don't know what you are talking about and you obviously don't understand what Pope Pius XI is saying in Mortalium Animos. Maybe you have never actually read the encyclical, or if you did, you don't understand it.

Mortalium Animos is a condemnation of these ecumenical meetings among "pan Christians" or pseudo Christian groups of non-Catholic "Christians" and Catholics with the object of setting aside their differences and forming some sort of an amalgamation of common beliefs.

Moritalium Animos is an encyclical issued against the false attempts at religious unity, today collectively known as “ecumenism”, that were beginning to blossom at the time.

"..it is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, [ecumenical meetings with non-Catholics] nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.

Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each his own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, We ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful? For example, those who affirm, and those who deny that sacred Tradition is a true fount of divine Revelation; those who hold that an ecclesiastical hierarchy, made up of bishops, priests and ministers, has been divinely constituted, and those who assert that it has been brought in little by little in accordance with the conditions of the time; those who adore Christ really present in the Most Holy Eucharist through that marvelous conversion of the bread and wine, which is called transubstantiation, and those who affirm that Christ is present only by faith or by the signification and virtue of the Sacrament; those who in the Eucharist recognize the nature both of a sacrament and of a sacrifice, and those who say that it is nothing more than the memorial or commemoration of the Lord’s Supper; those who believe it to be good and useful to invoke by prayer the Saints reigning with Christ, especially Mary the Mother of God, and to venerate their images, and those who urge that such a veneration is not to be made use of, for it is contrary to the honor due to Jesus Christ, “the one mediator of God and men.

So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it...To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. During the lapse of centuries, the mystical Spouse of Christ has never been contaminated, nor can she ever in the future be contaminated,

Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors...The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. .

Let, therefore, the separated children draw nigh to the Apostolic See, set up in the City which Peter and Paul, the Princes of the Apostles, consecrated by their blood; to that See, We repeat, which is “the root and womb whence the Church of God springs/

We humbly beg that He would deign to recall all who stray to the unity of the Church! In this most important undertaking We ask and wish that others should ask the prayers of Blessed Mary the Virgin, Mother of divine grace, victorious over all heresies and Help of Christians, that She may implore for Us the speedy coming of the much hoped-for day, when all men shall hear the voice of Her divine Son, and shall be “careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

You, Venerable Brethren, understand how much this question is in Our mind, and We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity. "