Ecumenical Guidelines of the Roman Catholic Church

mica

Well-known member
You obviously don't know what you are talking about and you obviously don't understand what Pope Pius XI is saying in Mortalium Animos. Maybe you have never actually read the encyclical, or if you did, you don't understand it.

Mortalium Animos is a condemnation of these ecumenical meetings among "pan Christians" or pseudo Christian groups of non-Catholic "Christians" and Catholics with the object of setting aside their differences and forming some sort of an amalgamation of common beliefs.

Moritalium Animos is an encyclical issued against the false attempts at religious unity, today collectively known as “ecumenism”, that were beginning to blossom at the time.

"..it is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, [ecumenical meetings with non-Catholics] nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.

Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each his own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, We ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful? For example, those who affirm, and those who deny that sacred Tradition is a true fount of divine Revelation; those who hold that an ecclesiastical hierarchy, made up of bishops, priests and ministers, has been divinely constituted, and those who assert that it has been brought in little by little in accordance with the conditions of the time; those who adore Christ really present in the Most Holy Eucharist through that marvelous conversion of the bread and wine, which is called transubstantiation, and those who affirm that Christ is present only by faith or by the signification and virtue of the Sacrament; those who in the Eucharist recognize the nature both of a sacrament and of a sacrifice, and those who say that it is nothing more than the memorial or commemoration of the Lord’s Supper; those who believe it to be good and useful to invoke by prayer the Saints reigning with Christ, especially Mary the Mother of God, and to venerate their images, and those who urge that such a veneration is not to be made use of, for it is contrary to the honor due to Jesus Christ, “the one mediator of God and men.

So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it...To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. During the lapse of centuries, the mystical Spouse of Christ has never been contaminated, nor can she ever in the future be contaminated,

Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors...The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. .

Let, therefore, the separated children draw nigh to the Apostolic See, set up in the City which Peter and Paul, the Princes of the Apostles, consecrated by their blood; to that See, We repeat, which is “the root and womb whence the Church of God springs/

We humbly beg that He would deign to recall all who stray to the unity of the Church! In this most important undertaking We ask and wish that others should ask the prayers of Blessed Mary the Virgin, Mother of divine grace, victorious over all heresies and Help of Christians, that She may implore for Us the speedy coming of the much hoped-for day, when all men shall hear the voice of Her divine Son, and shall be “careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

You, Venerable Brethren, understand how much this question is in Our mind, and We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity. "
The problem with the above is - it's a bunch of the usual catholic false teachings / beliefs. not things you find in or supported by scripture.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
You obviously don't know what you are talking about and you obviously don't understand what Pope Pius XI is saying in Mortalium Animos. Maybe you have never actually read the encyclical, or if you did, you don't understand it.

Mortalium Animos is a condemnation of these ecumenical meetings among "pan Christians" or pseudo Christian groups of non-Catholic "Christians" and Catholics with the object of setting aside their differences and forming some sort of an amalgamation of common beliefs.

Moritalium Animos is an encyclical issued against the false attempts at religious unity, today collectively known as “ecumenism”, that were beginning to blossom at the time.

"..it is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, [ecumenical meetings with non-Catholics] nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.

Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each his own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, We ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful? For example, those who affirm, and those who deny that sacred Tradition is a true fount of divine Revelation; those who hold that an ecclesiastical hierarchy, made up of bishops, priests and ministers, has been divinely constituted, and those who assert that it has been brought in little by little in accordance with the conditions of the time; those who adore Christ really present in the Most Holy Eucharist through that marvelous conversion of the bread and wine, which is called transubstantiation, and those who affirm that Christ is present only by faith or by the signification and virtue of the Sacrament; those who in the Eucharist recognize the nature both of a sacrament and of a sacrifice, and those who say that it is nothing more than the memorial or commemoration of the Lord’s Supper; those who believe it to be good and useful to invoke by prayer the Saints reigning with Christ, especially Mary the Mother of God, and to venerate their images, and those who urge that such a veneration is not to be made use of, for it is contrary to the honor due to Jesus Christ, “the one mediator of God and men.

So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it...To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. During the lapse of centuries, the mystical Spouse of Christ has never been contaminated, nor can she ever in the future be contaminated,

Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors...The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. .

Let, therefore, the separated children draw nigh to the Apostolic See, set up in the City which Peter and Paul, the Princes of the Apostles, consecrated by their blood; to that See, We repeat, which is “the root and womb whence the Church of God springs/

We humbly beg that He would deign to recall all who stray to the unity of the Church! In this most important undertaking We ask and wish that others should ask the prayers of Blessed Mary the Virgin, Mother of divine grace, victorious over all heresies and Help of Christians, that She may implore for Us the speedy coming of the much hoped-for day, when all men shall hear the voice of Her divine Son, and shall be “careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

You, Venerable Brethren, understand how much this question is in Our mind, and We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity. "
I do know that your Pope Pius XI wasn't sure if 'a great variety of opinions can make the way clear to effect the unity of the RCC or not'- but he did believe that "unity can only arise from one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians." Pius felt certain that from this 'unity' he so avidly despised, because he saw it as "an easy step to the neglect of religion or indifferentism and to modernism" as it was called. Pius decreed that "those, who are unhappily infected with these errors, hold that dogmatic truth is not absolute but relative, that is, that it agrees with the varying necessities of time and place and with the varying tendencies of the mind, since it is not contained in immutable revelation, but is capable of being accommodated to human life. "
 
I do know that your Pope Pius XI wasn't sure if 'a great variety of opinions can make the way clear to effect the unity of the RCC or not'- but he did believe that "unity can only arise from one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians." Pius felt certain that from this 'unity' he so avidly despised, because he saw it as "an easy step to the neglect of religion or indifferentism and to modernism" as it was called. Pius decreed that "those, who are unhappily infected with these errors, hold that dogmatic truth is not absolute but relative, that is, that it agrees with the varying necessities of time and place and with the varying tendencies of the mind, since it is not contained in immutable revelation, but is capable of being accommodated to human life. "
You really have no business making any commentary at all on this document since it is completely evident that you have absolutely no understanding of the purpose for which it was written and what Pope Pius XI is saying in it. This is actually embarrassing.

When he is speaking of "one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians." He is referring to the Catholic Church. The only way there can be any "unity" among Protestants and Catholics, is for Protestants to give up their heretical sects and beliefs and unite with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I don't know if you got these ideas from some Protestant anti-Catholic website or if you made them up on your own, but maybe you should start over and actually read Mortalium Animos slowly, and with attention, from beginning to end, to try to understand it.
 

balshan

Well-known member
You really have no business making any commentary at all on this document since it is completely evident that you have absolutely no understanding of the purpose for which it was written and what Pope Pius XI is saying in it. This is actually embarrassing.

When he is speaking of "one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians." He is referring to the Catholic Church. The only way there can be any "unity" among Protestants and Catholics, is for Protestants to give up their heretical sects and beliefs and unite with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I don't know if you got these ideas from some Protestant anti-Catholic website or if you made them up on your own, but maybe you should start over and actually read Mortalium Animos slowly, and with attention, from beginning to end, to try to understand it.
It is actually embarrassing that you are posting this response. If you feel that the poster has made an error point out why. I mean explain the purpose for which it was written and what the pope was saying in it.

You second paragraph is just RCC lies. Your institution is not the Catholic Church of scripture. There can be no unity with Protestants whilst your institution has false doctrines and has rotten smelling fruit.

Your reply shows arrogance and that is another reason why God pulled me out of this evil institution. Maybe you should read scriptures from Genesis to Revelation without the RCC bias and try to understand it.

By the way shows there is no unity in the RCC at all. It is a lie.
 
It is actually embarrassing that you are posting this response. If you feel that the poster has made an error point out why. I mean explain the purpose for which it was written and what the pope was saying in it.

You second paragraph is just RCC lies. Your institution is not the Catholic Church of scripture. There can be no unity with Protestants whilst your institution has false doctrines and has rotten smelling fruit.

Your reply shows arrogance and that is another reason why God pulled me out of this evil institution. Maybe you should read scriptures from Genesis to Revelation without the RCC bias and try to understand it.

By the way shows there is no unity in the RCC at all. It is a lie.
If you had bothered to read my previous posts in this thread, I already explained the purpose for which it was written and what the pope was saying in it.

I'm actually embarrassed for you.

Protestantism is a lie.
 

balshan

Well-known member
If you had bothered to read my previous posts in this thread, I already explained the purpose for which it was written and what the pope was saying in it.

I'm actually embarrassed for you.

Protestantism is a lie.
Well obviously your explanation was unclear. I am actually embarrassed for you. The RCC is a lie from the pit of hell. We can both do this all day but does it achieve anything.

By the way I am not a protestant. That is a name your institution gave them and it means that a priest stood up to the evil pope and his cronies and said you are wrong. You doctrines are flawed and you actions are not from God. That means he and the others that stood up against evil were heroes.
 
Well obviously your explanation was unclear. I am actually embarrassed for you. The RCC is a lie from the pit of hell. We can both do this all day but does it achieve anything.

By the way I am not a protestant. That is a name your institution gave them and it means that a priest stood up to the evil pope and his cronies and said you are wrong. You doctrines are flawed and you actions are not from God. That means he and the others that stood up against evil were heroes.
You're not a Protestant huh? What denomination do you belong to?

Do you believe that believers are justified by faith alone?
Do you believe scriptures are the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice?
Do you believe in the right of individual interpretation of scripture?

If you've answered yes to all these questions you have ticked off all three of the major tenets of Protestantism.

Congratulations, you are a Protestant!
 

balshan

Well-known member
You're not a Protestant huh? What denomination do you belong to?

Do you believe that believers are justified by faith alone?
Do you believe scriptures are the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice?
Do you believe in the right of individual interpretation of scripture?

If you've answered yes to all these questions you have ticked off all three of the major tenets of Protestantism.

Congratulations, you are a Protestant!
Glad you asked question and then assumed the answers to them. You what people say about assumping.

I don't belong to any denomination unlike yourself.
 
Glad you asked question and then assumed the answers to them. You what people say about assumping.

I don't belong to any denomination unlike yourself.
So because you go to a "nondenominational" church you believe you're not Protestant?

Do you believe that believers are justified by faith alone?
Do you believe scriptures are the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice?
Do you believe in the right of individual interpretation of scripture?
 

balshan

Well-known member
So because you go to a "nondenominational" church you believe you're not Protestant?

Do you believe that believers are justified by faith alone?
Do you believe scriptures are the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice?
Do you believe in the right of individual interpretation of scripture?
I don't protest against God. I just do not blindly follow an institution that has false doctrines and has lied throughout the centuries. God does not lie. I follow Jesus. Your institution's group interpretation is full of lies.
 

mica

Well-known member
So because you go to a "nondenominational" church you believe you're not Protestant?

Do you believe that believers are justified by faith alone?
Do you believe scriptures are the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice?
Do you believe in the right of individual interpretation of scripture?
what is your definition of that?

fyi - catholics are protesters of God's word.
 

mica

Well-known member
Mysterium Fidei said:
You really have no business making any commentary at all on this document since it is completely evident that you have absolutely no understanding of the purpose for which it was written and what Pope Pius XI is saying in it. This is actually embarrassing.

When he is speaking of "one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians." He is referring to the Catholic Church. The only way there can be any "unity" among Protestants and Catholics, is for Protestants to give up their heretical sects and beliefs and unite with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I don't know if you got these ideas from some Protestant anti-Catholic website or if you made them up on your own, but maybe you should start over and actually read Mortalium Animos slowly, and with attention, from beginning to end, to try to understand it.
believers are united in Christ. not all of those that catholics have labeled as 'protestant' are believers. so there won't be unity between the believers and the unbelievers. That is no surprise. and obviously you aren't 'united' with the 'new' RCC, are you?

It would be a very good thing if all of those who don't believe in Christ (protestant and catholic) would unite in Him. believing in the RCC and following it is not the same as believing in and following Christ.
 

mica

Well-known member
Mysterium Fidei said:
You obviously don't know what you are talking about and you obviously don't understand what Pope Pius XI is saying in Mortalium Animos. Maybe you have never actually read the encyclical, or if you did, you don't understand it.

Mortalium Animos is a condemnation of these ecumenical meetings among "pan Christians" or pseudo Christian groups of non-Catholic "Christians" and Catholics with the object of setting aside their differences and forming some sort of an amalgamation of common beliefs.

Moritalium Animos is an encyclical issued against the false attempts at religious unity, today collectively known as “ecumenism”, that were beginning to blossom at the time.
...
great! he wrote against the beliefs of the 'Church' he was the supposed leader of... no wonder catholicism is such a mass of confusion!
 

balshan

Well-known member
Glad you asked question and then assumed the answers to them. You what people say about assumping.

I don't belong to any denomination unlike yourself.
That sentence should read - you know what people say about assuming. Sorry I got interrupted.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
You really have no business making any commentary at all on this document since it is completely evident that you have absolutely no understanding of the purpose for which it was written and what Pope Pius XI is saying in it. This is actually embarrassing.

When he is speaking of "one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians." He is referring to the Catholic Church. The only way there can be any "unity" among Protestants and Catholics, is for Protestants to give up their heretical sects and beliefs and unite with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I don't know if you got these ideas from some Protestant anti-Catholic website or if you made them up on your own, but maybe you should start over and actually read Mortalium Animos slowly, and with attention, from beginning to end, to try to understand it.
Oh-h-h-h, because I don't see things through your parched Roman Catholic eyes, you're embarrassed...... LMHO! What a hoot! You're so comedic myfi! :giggle:

Nah, I understand Mortalium Animos completely, it's really quite simple once you work-around the the pope's usage of various favorite Roman Catholic techniques he employed in writing his encyclical. Simply stated, the RCC pope is proclaiming that there is no spiritual parity which exists between Roman Catholics and non-RC "Christians." Pius makes it very clear in his document, that formerly granting Protestants "equal footing" with [Roman] Catholics in matters of theology which was a standing affirmation that both positions shared the same spiritual status and that neither sect possessed sole claim to the truth, was not something that Pius was in agreement with at all. So, to fix that little personal irritant of his, in 1928 Pius XI, decrying false ecumenism in his encyclical Mortalium Animos, he boldly expressed his outrage at the offer of non-RC assemblies to come to "the Church of Rome. . . on equal terms, that is as equals with an equal." And, even if such meetings were arranged, the pope argued, the Protestant assemblies that "loudly preach fraternal communion in Christ Jesus" would still remain unwilling "to submit to and obey the Vicar of Jesus Christ either in his capacity as a teacher or as a governor." So, based on that realization, Pius XI declared, "It is clear that the Apostolic See cannot, on any terms, take part in their [Protestant] assemblies, nor is it in anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity quite alien to the one Church of Christ."
 

mica

Well-known member
Oh-h-h-h, because I don't see things through your parched Roman Catholic eyes, you're embarrassed...... LMHO! What a hoot! You're so comedic myfi! :giggle:

Nah, I understand Mortalium Animos completely, it's really quite simple once you work-around the the pope's usage of various favorite Roman Catholic techniques he employed in writing his encyclical. Simply stated, the RCC pope is proclaiming that there is no spiritual parity which exists between Roman Catholics and non-RC "Christians." Pius makes it very clear in his document, that formerly granting Protestants "equal footing" with [Roman] Catholics in matters of theology which was a standing affirmation that both positions shared the same spiritual status and that neither sect possessed sole claim to the truth, was not something that Pius was in agreement with at all. So, to fix that little personal irritant of his, in 1928 Pius XI, decrying false ecumenism in his encyclical Mortalium Animos, he boldly expressed his outrage at the offer of non-RC assemblies to come to "the Church of Rome. . . on equal terms, that is as equals with an equal." And, even if such meetings were arranged, the pope argued, the Protestant assemblies that "loudly preach fraternal communion in Christ Jesus" would still remain unwilling "to submit to and obey the Vicar of Jesus Christ either in his capacity as a teacher or as a governor." So, based on that realization, Pius XI declared, "It is clear that the Apostolic See cannot, on any terms, take part in their [Protestant] assemblies, nor is it in anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity quite alien to the one Church of Christ."
did he list supporting scripture in that writing, any verse where Jesus tells anyone they must submit to and obey Peter? I don't remember ever reading a verse that says that.
 
Oh-h-h-h, because I don't see things through your parched Roman Catholic eyes, you're embarrassed...... LMHO! What a hoot! You're so comedic myfi! :giggle:

Nah, I understand Mortalium Animos completely, it's really quite simple once you work-around the the pope's usage of various favorite Roman Catholic techniques he employed in writing his encyclical. Simply stated, the RCC pope is proclaiming that there is no spiritual parity which exists between Roman Catholics and non-RC "Christians." Pius makes it very clear in his document, that formerly granting Protestants "equal footing" with [Roman] Catholics in matters of theology which was a standing affirmation that both positions shared the same spiritual status and that neither sect possessed sole claim to the truth, was not something that Pius was in agreement with at all. So, to fix that little personal irritant of his, in 1928 Pius XI, decrying false ecumenism in his encyclical Mortalium Animos, he boldly expressed his outrage at the offer of non-RC assemblies to come to "the Church of Rome. . . on equal terms, that is as equals with an equal." And, even if such meetings were arranged, the pope argued, the Protestant assemblies that "loudly preach fraternal communion in Christ Jesus" would still remain unwilling "to submit to and obey the Vicar of Jesus Christ either in his capacity as a teacher or as a governor." So, based on that realization, Pius XI declared, "It is clear that the Apostolic See cannot, on any terms, take part in their [Protestant] assemblies, nor is it in anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity quite alien to the one Church of Christ."
edit per mod

However, in these things you are correct: 1.) There is NO parity or "equal footing" between the Catholic Church and any other schismatic or heretic Protestant sects.

2.) Only the Catholic Church has the sole claim to truth as it was founded by the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, to teach rule and sanctify man.

3.) All Christians must submit to and obey the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth as head of His divinely founded Church.

There never was any offer for non-Catholics sects to join the Catholic Church "on equal terms". The Catholic Church cannot compromise on the least point of dogma or morals to accommodate schismatic or heretic sects.

The only true ecumenism, therefore, is for those who have separated from the Catholic Church or have been brought up in schismatic and heretic sects, to leave these sects completely, renounce their heresies and errors, and join the Catholic Church, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation.
 
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balshan

Well-known member
edit

However, in these things you are correct: 1.) There is NO parity or "equal footing" between the Catholic Church and any other schismatic or heretic Protestant sects.

2.) Only the Catholic Church has the sole claim to truth as it was founded by the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, to teach rule and sanctify man.

3.) All Christians must submit to and obey the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth as head of His divinely founded Church.

There never was any offer for non-Catholics sects to join the Catholic Church "on equal terms". The Catholic Church cannot compromise on the least point of dogma or morals to accommodate schismatic or heretic sects.

The only true ecumenism, therefore, is for those who have separated from the Catholic Church or have been brought up in schismatic and heretic sects, to leave these sects completely, renounce their heresies and errors, and join the Catholic Church, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation.
No it would be better if all RCs left there institution and got to know Jesus. Most people who post here have an excellent understanding of what the institution teaches and what it does, they are also aware of its revisionist history.
 
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