Election

Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
Since you couldn't read Greek if your life depended on it, let me explain it to you...

1) The verb "is" (Greek, "estin", present tense) EXPLICITLY appears in the two Hebrews verses I quoted (which you have IGNORED).

2) As for the 1 Tim. 2:5 text, the verb "is" is implicit in the text. This frequently occurs in the Greek, that the verb is implied in terms of identity attribute, or what is called the "predicate nominative". But since it teaches identity, it is ALWAYS the present tense, "is", and is never any other tense (such as aorist, imperfect, future, perfect, etc.).

You simply have no leg to stand on.
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Its all Greek to him anyways as the saying goes. 🤣
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
I use translations based on either. your point is pointless, just another attempt to side track truth
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No, your argument is based on "truth is determined by majority".
If it's true for doctrine, it must be true for Bible translation.
Otherwise you're engaging in a double standard.
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Actually Civic, you should stop trying to speak for me. You fail at it and misrepresent me.
Yes, I read NASB, but I always read KJV and ESV. All three are for me excellent translations
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No you have said that is your go to version. Shall I quote you ?
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
Since you couldn't read Greek if your life depended on it, let me explain it to you...

1) The verb "is" (Greek, "estin", present tense) EXPLICITLY appears in the two Hebrews verses I quoted (which you have IGNORED).

2) As for the 1 Tim. 2:5 text, the verb "is" is implicit in the text. This frequently occurs in the Greek, that the verb is implied in terms of identity attribute, or what is called the "predicate nominative". But since it teaches identity, it is ALWAYS the present tense, "is", and is never any other tense (such as aorist, imperfect, future, perfect, etc.).

You simply have no leg to stand on.
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your first point has nothing to do with the discussion as we are talking about "is one mediator"
Your second point, ignores facts. You claim "is" is implicit. No argument there. But the tense of the verb is not explicit, and that tense, which does not exist cannot be pointed to as proof of the position being espoused
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
civic said:
No you have said that is your go to version. Shall I quote you ?
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Yes, like most calvinists you have part of the truth and improvise around it,
I am here, currently making posts and I am telling you you are wrong about how i study.
I mostly reference those three versions
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Yes, like most calvinists you have part of the truth and improvise around it,
I am here, currently making posts and I am telling you you are wrong about how i study.
I mostly reference those three versions
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here in this thread you exclusively quote the NASB and you said that it the version you personally use in your bible study group. Are you denying that too ?

Acts 5:32 Obedience before the indwelling

Acts 5:32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him Here is another of the many verses that teach a man must respond before the Spirit indwells him. Notice what comes first: obedience. Then the Spirit is given, What kind of...
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Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
your first point has nothing to do with the discussion as we are talking about "is one mediator"
Your second point, ignores facts. You claim "is" is implicit. No argument there. But the tense of the verb is not explicit, and that tense, which does not exist cannot be pointed to as proof of the position being espoused
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Actually, the tense IS explicit.
For a predicate nominative, it is ALWAYS present tense.

Do you think it was an ACCIDENT that EVERY Greek scholar translates it as "is", and not "was"?
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
No, your argument is based on "truth is determined by majority".
If it's true for doctrine, it must be true for Bible translation.
Otherwise you're engaging in a double standard.
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No, you seem unable to read a post for understanding.
I NEVER said that truth is determined by majority. That is what is called a straw man. You changed my argument to something you felt you could argue against instead of discussing what i actually posted,
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
Actually, the tense IS explicit.
For a predicate nominative, it is ALWAYS present tense.

Do you think it was an ACCIDENT that EVERY Greek scholar translates it as "is", and not "was"?
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Again, you keep side stepping the actual points. It is impossible to make a point about a word that does not exist in the text.
"IS" is not in the text, so regardless of the proper translation, it is not reasonable to discuss what the present tense verb "is" indicates
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
No, you seem unable to read a post for understanding.
I NEVER said that truth is determined by majority. That is what is called a straw man. You changed my argument to something you felt you could argue against instead of discussing what i actually posted,
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No it was your argument claiming tulip is in the minority view hence it is wrong.
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
Then why do you keep bringing up "mainstream Christianity" being the "majority" view, as if that's the least bit relevant to anything?

You continue to refuse to take responsibility for the content of your OWN posts.
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Unbelievable when a person cannot remember what they have just said in a previous post and then denies they said it.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Again, you keep side stepping the actual points. It is impossible to make a point about a word that does not exist in the text.
"IS" is not in the text, so regardless of the proper translation, it is not reasonable to discuss what the present tense verb "is" indicates
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EVERY Greek scholar on the face of the Earth disagrees with you, Seth.
It's no accident that EVERY single one of them puts in the present tense.

But if you want to claim that you know better than EVERY Greek scholar on the face of the Earth, then kindly share with us your Greek credentials, how many years you've studied Greek, which grammars you used, who your professors were, etc. etc.
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Again, you keep side stepping the actual points. It is impossible to make a point about a word that does not exist in the text.
"IS" is not in the text, so regardless of the proper translation, it is not reasonable to discuss what the present tense verb "is" indicates
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look everyone seth is right and every translation is wrong. But seth will not read it because I cut n pasted the truth which he rejects.

Oh and it has his 3 favorite versions below he swears by the KJ, NASB and ESV that all contradict him.

New International Version
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
For, There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Berean Study Bible
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Berean Literal Bible
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

King James Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

New King James Version
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

New American Standard Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

NASB 1995
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

NASB 1977
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Amplified Bible
For there is [only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus,

Christian Standard Bible
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, Himself human,

American Standard Version
For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For God is One, and The Mediator of God and the sons of men is One: The Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah,

Contemporary English Version
There is only one God, and Christ Jesus is the only one who can bring us to God. Jesus was truly human, and he gave himself to rescue all of us.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

English Revised Version
For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

Good News Translation
For there is one God, and there is one who brings God and human beings together, the man Christ Jesus,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and humans-a human, Christ Jesus.

International Standard Version
There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings—a human, the Messiah Jesus.

Literal Standard Version
for [there is] one God, also one mediator of God and of men—the man Christ Jesus,

NET Bible
For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,

New Heart English Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and humanity, a human, Christ Jesus,

Weymouth New Testament
For there is but one God and but one Mediator between God and men--Christ Jesus, Himself man;

World English Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Young's Literal Translation
for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
It is a phrase describing the majority of the Christian church over the centuries, regardless of church affiliation, that embraces certain doctrines. TULIP is outside of that.
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see you said tulip is outside of the majority view- your words not mine.

caught once again with your hands inside the cookie jar- oops
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Calvinism is discredited. Mainstream Christianity disagrees with TULIP.
There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors and when the multitude think you are wrong, you should do as i do and go back to the Bible, read with an open heart and pray for understanding
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and you said it here once again @Sethproton

oops caught once again with your hands in the cookie jar- your own words just came back and bit you once again.
 
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