Election

ReverendRV

Well-known member
look everyone seth is right and every translation is wrong. But seth will not read it because I cut n pasted the truth which he rejects.

Oh and it has his 3 favorite versions below he swears by the KJ, NASB and ESV that all contradict him.

New International Version
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
For, There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Berean Study Bible
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Berean Literal Bible
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

King James Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

New King James Version
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

New American Standard Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

NASB 1995
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

NASB 1977
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Amplified Bible
For there is [only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus,

Christian Standard Bible
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, Himself human,

American Standard Version
For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For God is One, and The Mediator of God and the sons of men is One: The Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah,

Contemporary English Version
There is only one God, and Christ Jesus is the only one who can bring us to God. Jesus was truly human, and he gave himself to rescue all of us.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

English Revised Version
For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

Good News Translation
For there is one God, and there is one who brings God and human beings together, the man Christ Jesus,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and humans-a human, Christ Jesus.

International Standard Version
There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings—a human, the Messiah Jesus.

Literal Standard Version
for [there is] one God, also one mediator of God and of men—the man Christ Jesus,

NET Bible
For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,

New Heart English Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and humanity, a human, Christ Jesus,

Weymouth New Testament
For there is but one God and but one Mediator between God and men--Christ Jesus, Himself man;

World English Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Young's Literal Translation
for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
He gives you many opportunities to show the Lurkers...

I'm sure he feels he's making headway though...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
and you said it here once again @Sethproton

oops caught once again with your hands in the cookie jar- your own words just came back and bit you once again.
Are you just unable to read for understanding, or do you intentionally twist people's words and expect no one will notice?
I said there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. You read that and report me as saying the minority is wrong. Really?
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
He gives you many opportunities to show the Lurkers...

I'm sure he feels he's making headway though...
That is an impossibility since anyone with 1/4 of a brain can see the scripture contradicts his position. Every single bible translation exposes his error.

What is ironic is that when it suit him he says the translations are accurate and doesn't need the Greek but then uses the reverse arguments when its convenient.

1 John 4:2-3 and 2 John 7 are examples where the person literally rejects every Greek reference and expert and says our English translations are fine but when its convenient such as the case with 1 Tim 2:5 then he pleads the 5th and goes with the Greek ( which he doesn't know contradicts him) because he cannot read or translate Greek into English.

I just love the irony :)
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Maybe I underestimate the lurkers. It troubles me when you blatantly misrepresent people like me.
But perhaps they see thru you? I hope so
Oh no I have you dialed in and everyone but you knows that seth. Its why I saved so many of your previous posts so you have to confront your own words.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Are you just unable to read for understanding, or do you intentionally twist people's words and expect no one will notice?
I said there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. You read that and report me as saying the minority is wrong. Really?
Here are you own words which you left out "

" Calvinism is discredited. Mainstream Christianity disagrees with TULIP. "

And for the lurkers here is the link to the above quote


oops...................................

hand caught in cookie jar again
insert foot into mouth.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
That is an impossibility since anyone with 1/4 of a brain can see the scripture contradicts his position. Every single bible translation exposes his error.

What is ironic is that when it suit him he says the translations are accurate and doesn't need the Greek but then uses the reverse arguments when its convenient.

1 John 4:2-3 and 2 John 7 are examples where the person literally rejects every Greek reference and expert and says our English translations are fine but when its convenient such as the case with 1 Tim 2:5 then he pleads the 5th and goes with the Greek ( which he doesn't know contradicts him) because he cannot read or translate Greek into English.

I just love the irony :)
You have an interesting approach, arguing against things I do not say, and ignoring what I do say.
I tell you that the word "is" is not literally in the Greek, but that it seems to be a proper way to translate to english
Then you list all the translations that render it the way I said was correct, and consider that somehow proves me wrong.

The real point is worth repeating. The greek word for "is" is not present, therefore to make a point on the tense of the verb is meaningless.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
You have an interesting approach, arguing against things I do not say, and ignoring what I do say.
I tell you that the word "is" is not literally in the Greek, but that it seems to be a proper way to translate to english
Then you list all the translations that render it the way I said was correct, and consider that somehow proves me wrong.

The real point is worth repeating. The greek word for "is" is not present, therefore to make a point on the tense of the verb is meaningless.
I will quote Theo1689

"As for the 1 Tim. 2:5 text, the verb "is" is implicit in the text. This frequently occurs in the Greek, that the verb is implied in terms of identity attribute, or what is called the "predicate nominative". But since it teaches identity, it is ALWAYS the present tense, "is", and is never any other tense (such as aorist, imperfect, future, perfect, etc.)."


And he is 100% correct see below :

Nominative-Predicate​

Linking verbs such as εἰμί, γίνομαι, and ὑπάρχω are completed with an object in nominative case. The Nominative-Predicate (also referred to as Predicate Nominative) construction can take different forms but consists of a subject + a linking verb + an object in the nominative case. [The linking verb may be implied and not actually present in the text.] Care must be used in the translation of a Nominative-Predicate because the object may not be in the last position and is often not an exact equivalent of the subject. The Predicate Nominative is generally the larger class of objects, while the subject is the smaller class. Therefore, the translator must clearly understand which word (or phrase) is the subject of the sentence and which word (or phrase) is the predicate nominative. The translator must use equal care in the translation so that the reader will be able to distinguish between the subject and the predicate nominative.

Consider the sentence, “Paul is a man.” “Paul” is the subject and “man” is the Nominative-Predicate. The translator must be careful to first understand the passage and then take equal care in the translation to make sure the reader understands that Paul is the subject and man is the Nominative-Predicate. English uses word order to indicate which word is the subject and which word is the Predicate Nominative. Therefore reversing the word order in English to say “a man is Paul” would lead the reader to think that all men are “Paul” which is not true. The more definite of the two words (or clauses) in the nominative case will be the subject of the sentence.https://ugg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/case_nominative.html
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Here are you own words which you left out "

" Calvinism is discredited. Mainstream Christianity disagrees with TULIP. "Civic'sclaim?

And for the lurkers here is the link to the above quote


oops...................................

hand caught in cookie jar again
insert foot into mouth.
So you quote two of my sentences:
Calvinism is discredited.
Mainstream Christianity disagrees with TULIP.

Then you claim I said the majority is always right.
Can anyone see how those two sentences logically are stating Civic's claim about what i meant?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That is an impossibility since anyone with 1/4 of a brain can see the scripture contradicts his position. Every single bible translation exposes his error.

What is ironic is that when it suit him he says the translations are accurate and doesn't need the Greek but then uses the reverse arguments when its convenient.

1 John 4:2-3 and 2 John 7 are examples where the person literally rejects every Greek reference and expert and says our English translations are fine but when its convenient such as the case with 1 Tim 2:5 then he pleads the 5th and goes with the Greek ( which he doesn't know contradicts him) because he cannot read or translate Greek into English.

I just love the irony :)
Like I said, this was another opportunity to show the Lurkers; way to go. My hope is that it backfires on him, and the Lurkers say 'Those Calvinists are the ones who are right about the Bodily Resurrection, maybe I should look into Calvinism with an Open Mind'...
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
So you quote two of my sentences:
Calvinism is discredited.
Mainstream Christianity disagrees with TULIP.

Um, you juxtaposed them against each other.
So were we supposed to interpret them as completely independent of each other, as if you were simply posting "fortune cookie" messages?

Can anyone see how those two sentences logically are stating Civic's claim about what i meant?

Um, EVERYONE can.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Um, you juxtaposed them against each other.
So were we supposed to interpret them as completely independent of each other, as if you were simply posting "fortune cookie" messages?



Um, EVERYONE can.
Since I never said the majority is right nor that the minority is right, it would seem impossible, that someone deduced the meaning you claim from those two sentences that say no such thing
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Since I never said the majority is right nor that the minority is right, it would seem impossible, that someone deduced the meaning you claim from those two sentences that say no such thing

So nobody's allowed to testify for themselves.
Seth gets to dictate to everyone how they think and what they see and understand.

Got it.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
I thought you of all people would be more careful in your response. In the Greek there is one word translated "there is one" and it is the word heis, which strictly translated is the number one.
So while "there is one" is probably an accurate translation, it does not allow for making doctrine on the tense of a verb, since no verb exists.
Surely you can see that?
So a verb must be actually present, as opposed to implied, in order for it to carry theological significance? The critical portion of 1 Tim 2:5 is that the present tense mediator is "the man Jesus Christ". The " is" is a rabbit trail, as you have admitted that the present tense is the appropriate translation, and the present tense is cleary written in Hebrews, so your present argument is invalidated.

Moreover, I am still waiting for you to prove your thesis:

"...no language, syntax of lexical facts are going to provide your understanding of Mediator. Your understanding comes from the church"

Thus, you would need to demonstrate that, a) you can express my "understanding of Mediator", and that b) the language, syntax, an lexical is contrary to "my understanding of Mediator."

Doug
 
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