Theo1689
Well-known member
You don't read posts before you respond to them, do you?
Election
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You don't read posts before you respond to them, do you?
TibiasDad
Well-known member
No it is not! If you are familiar with three languages, Seth, I strongly suggest that you take that aptitude for language and study Greek instead of using Japanese as a parallel to Koine Greek! Greek syntax is not English or Japanese or whatever other language you may be familiar.
You would do well to either put up or shut up regarding your assertion "that the word IS is needed to express the Greek properly." Theo has quite decimated your argument over "is", and until you can cite a reputable scholar that counters his explanation, you will hold no credibility to be taken seriously. (I mean, if I'm agreeing with Theo, this is a no brainer, absolute undeniable fact that cannot be dismissed without serious bias. Your argument is akin to the earth being flat, or the moon landings were a hoax!)
This said, I still maintain that your "is", is a rabbit trail argument, and you have yet to present any proof of your denial of my arguments validity with regards to scripture and language.
Doug
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Sethproton
Well-known member
Sorry Doug, I thought I responded to everything you said.
Though on the other side you never responded to what a mediator actually is.
I wonder how you think you closed the case on this without once addressing what a court mediator does.
And again, Civic has been making an argument about the word "is" for years. But there is a number there, the number one, and no verb.
So why you want to accept a doctrine based on a non-existent verb baffles me.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Sethproton
Well-known member
Yes, great catch. Didn't think that one thru
But do you really want to be like a Calvinist who points out spelling errors instead of responding to the substance of posts?
G
guest1
Guest
The verb in Hebrews 8:6 is estin which is a present active indicative.
Present Tense
The present tense usually denotes continuous kind of action. It shows 'action in progress' or 'a state of persistence.' When used in the indicative mood, the present tense denotes action taking place or going on in the present time.
Game over seth you lose.
G
guest1
Guest
Speaking of substance . Let’s see you address these questions on the present tense Verb estin which is in the present active indicative mood. Let’s test your knowledge of both Greek and English below .
1 John 4:7 says that
God is Love.
Is God love ? Yes or no
Is God love now ? Yes or no
Did God stop being love ? Yes or no
hope this helps !!!
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I believe I have on several occasions, including here!
To the Greek reader, the intransitive verb is assumed due to the εἷς γὰρ Θεός. εἷς, is 1) an adjective, which tells us something about the noun to which it is predicated. Thus the reader would instinctively say the noun/subject (predicate nominative) "is" X. 2) The Greek has εἷς as the first word in the sentence, which many times is an indicator of the importance of the word in the author's mind. It reads very similar to the Shema of Duet 6:4, in which אֶחָֽד is identical to εἷς and the verb is implied. "Hear O Israel...the Lord is one!" I cannot help but think that this was part of Paul's thinking in 1 Tim 5:2.
In English, however, to write "one for God" is meaningless without a verb written into the phrase. Does it mean "one is/was/ for God"? Is "one" an adjective or a nominative? It is the Greek syntax that determines how we should write it in English, namely, "For God is one!"
Finally, we do not accept doctrine based on a non-existent verb because the verb is syntactically implied in Greek, and because other scriptures (Heb 8:6 et al) tell us explicitly that Christ is a present tense reality mediator.
Doug
Sethproton
Well-known member
Don't you want to address what you have been saying for years? There is one mediator, with the verb IS in present tense?
YOu have dogged me about this regularly for years and now you are all done without a peep?
Sethproton
Well-known member
No. the fact is everyone was talking about the present tense "to be" verb and how that proved Civic's point, until I pointed out there was no verb, just a number. He has now abandoned that which he has dogged me with for years, and moved on to another verse. But once he thinks people have forgotten, he'll bring it up again.
By the way, are you even aware of why Civic was so hot for that non-existent "to be" verb to be present tense? Because it, for him without a doubt, proved that Jesus was still mediating our covenant with God. That of course is nonsense. I did not need the absence of a verb to know that? because I read the definition of the Greek word, and it is mediator, and i know what a mediator does in court.
So yes, you can bring in Heb 8:6 and we could discuss that context. In fact i will have to study it more in order to do so.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
No, he's figured you out...
Theo1689
Well-known member
civic, Johnnybgood, TibiasDad, and I have all been trying to get you to address Heb. 8:6 for over a day now.
You keep playing games (like falsely claiming Johnnybgood is a Calvinist).
So any time you're interested in addressing the issue, nobody's stopping you.
Sethproton
Well-known member
Could be. who knows. What is it you think he figured out?
Sethproton
Well-known member
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Yes, it was you pointing out that brought this conversation to another level of absurdity. My guess is that, if he has abandoned it, it is because there is no use conversing with you, but that would only be my opinion. I'll let @civic speak for himself.
If the meaning of present tense is apparent, even without the verb being written, then the meaning is the same as if it are written. You have admitted that "is" is the correct meaning, so the meaning of the present tense is necessarily valid, which makes your objections moot!
There is nothing to study. The present tense verb is the simplest of things to understand.
Doug
preacher4truth
Well-known member
"It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is..." - Slick Willy.
Sethproton
Well-known member
You are smart, but you have missed the single point about this, so I will repeat it for you again.
You cannot make a theological point about the tense of a verb, when that verse does not exist.
period
Sethproton
Well-known member
Actually this is not about the meaning of the word "is." It is about the fact that there is no verb, and therefore, there is no verb tense and therefore it is invalid to make a doctrinal point based on a verb tense that does not exist
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Seth, the verb not being actually written doesn’t mean the verb is not there by necessary implication.
If you can establish meaning, which you admittedly have, you can, and have, established a theological belief, or at least the foundation on which a belief rests. The “is” is both necessary and thus implicit, and you would do well to shelf the, to use your word, the nonsense of your self stultifying argument.
Doug
Theo1689
Well-known member
1) Beloved Daughter is a professional teacher, and she teaches English. And she has demonstrated that you are wrong.
2) TibiasDad has studied Koine Greek, and I can tell you that you need to have a GOOD undesrtanding of English grammar to understand Greek grammar. And he has corrected you.
3) I, Theo1689, have studied Koine Greek, and have corrected you as well.
4) Civic has corrected you as well, and I can attest that the information he has shared with you is correct, as can TibiasDad.
5) Johnnybgood has also seen beneath your false facade.
6) You, Sethproton, have made MULTIPLE basic errors of grammar in your posts, including (ironically) multiple errors in misuse of the verb, "to be".
What more do you need?
Or is this truly the hill you want to proverbially die on?